Discussion page archives

man is man-made.

Discussion Page Archives

Month of September '98

ROBERT T. LEE:I'm still wainting on someone on this ward to supply indisputable evidence that true Christians of old believed that the earth is flat. PapaSam's feeble efforts only illustrates how big a fool he is. Hey PapaSam: have you ever heard of North, East, South and West? - 0:45:27 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

evil atheist:--->RTL...Freudian slip there per chance? "wainting"? Did you mean "wanking"? - 1:47:57 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

evil athiest lurking in a bush:Please define "true Christian" - 1:49:24 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Heathenistic Atheist:RTL- I'm still waiting for you to supply indisputable evidence that your god exsists! - 3:30:25 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Grant:RTL-- You seem to be challenging someone to produce the name of a Christian from approximately two thousand years ago and first prove to you that his beliefs would meet your approval, and then show direct evidence that he believed the earth was flat. This may be an unreasonable request considering there is no incentive to undertake such a task, and in fact there is pretty big disincentive. For one thing, if your pattern of behavior remains consistant you would say that "true Christians" believed the earth was round, therefore any example presented could not be a "true Christian." For another, historians and anthropologists and mythologists etc. I think would say that pretty much everyone concerned believed the earth was flat. You wish to make the extraordinary claim that "true Christians," who by implication would be those people with whom you would agree, knew better. The disincentive here is that it is extremely difficult to prove that an unspecified group of people centuries ago (you have not defined "true Christian.") did not know a particular thing. The reasonable approach, and immeasurably easier, would be for you to produce some piece of evidence that the group you have in mind had such knowledge, after all, it is you who is making the claim. If I were to say that atheists had computers two thousand years ago, (albeit only 386's) you would not be compelled to believe me if you couldn't prove me wrong to my satisfaction. If I wanted to be taken seriously by anyone, I would be the one expected to produce the evidence. This is the position you have chosen to be in. Still with me? I know. It's tedious for me too, but you don't seem to know this. Now about your remarkable conclusion---- "...that it was not genuine Christians who believed this myth, but it was the liberal, atheistic so-called "scholars" and etc of the day who established and believed that myth. But now that the same ilk of people look back into history and see how terribly mistakened earlier atheists were, they try to blame those early myth on true Christians. A hundred years from now if they ever come to to realize that their present day speculations are also wrong, they may blame them on present day Christians also."--- History and reality and such can be so inconvenient. Better to make it up as you go, yes? - 4:53:22 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

PapaSam:ROBERT T LEE. You stupid bastard! You criticize my so- called "FEEBLE EFFORTS." I gave you one quote from your bible about the "four corners of the earth." Wasn't your bible christian enough? Look up the cartography section in any good encylopedia. Check out the "Mappae Mundi" which is a map of a flat earth with Jeusalem at the center. The next time you need some research done ask one of your fellow delusionists on your web site to do it for you. As I said before, you combine ignorance and stupidity to an amazing degree. I'll make a deal with you, Robert. You keep off this site and I will refrain from making any graven images. - 5:15:30 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Curious Joe:ROBERTTLEE. If you had a daughter and she got married and her husband complained that she was not a virgin would you help stone her to death IAW the bible's instructions? - 5:25:37 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

PaaSam:Curious Joe. Don't give the idiot any more ideas. He's in sad enough shape as it is. - 5:28:33 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

shapely shapeless in your suit - 8:06:56 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Deinonychus antirrhopus - 8:15:47 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Velociraptor mongoliensis - 8:17:44 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Richard Webster - 10:03:42 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Newgrange - 10:04:26 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Napoleon:I know what you are saying Barbra (we can walk right pass them) but Mr.Wormly looks for the gas key now. Cooper, I'm in charge up here! - 10:09:58 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->GRANT...excellent post. - 11:17:40 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Grant:JOETTE-- I wonder if this God character of RTL's is thought to make allowances for those such as RTL who are unable to grasp the concept of integrity? - 12:57:45 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

TheJudeaoChristianIslamicMarxistLenninistTrotskiiteMaoistContiuumOfIdelogicalCo nstructsDevelopedWithinAnAmorpheousSocioPoliticalContextOfVaryingEconoGeoPoliti calImplicationsAndDialectialForcesArrayedToProvideForTheTrasmutationOfFundament alAtomisiticNotionsContinuousThroughoutTheExpanseOfWesternCulturalValuesSharedC oncurrantlyWithPriorPaganCultsWhichWeReallyDoNotWantToMentionInPublicAsThatWoul dScareSomeOfTheFolksWhoReallyHopeThatTheForwardProgessOfTechnologyIsAnOngoingPr ocessThatShouldBeHeadingInTheRightDirectionIfAllThingsSortaAbasicallyWorkOutAsW eHopeAndOurScientificDiscoveriesDoNotDestoryUsFirstButWhichIfItDoesValidatesThe UnderlyingCommonMythSystemsAboutTheEscathologyWhichVariesWithinTheTokenizationO fTheContinuumButManifestItselfCorrectlyWhereNotVoidOrProhibitedByLawButTheMilea geWillVaryDependingUponTheOctaneRatingOfThePhilosophysoCalledUponToProvideTheBa sicEpistemolicalToolsNeededToValidateTheNotion. - 13:55:23 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:GRANT: Of course you know that RTLs'only response will be along the lines of, liar liar pants on fire, the religeous adherent, as RTL exemplifies, are such pinheads. Of this last term, sunday eve I caught parts of some program that seemed to be of circus oddballs. The program referred to one of years back whose head never completly developed. It was pointed and soft at the top and the fella had the brainpower of a 7 yr.old. I seem to recall the report said this pinhead fella was forty+, anyhow that sure looks to be the brainpower of RTL and most other such folks who prefer to imagine that there is a godthing. - 14:33:33 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Steven:JOETTE<<>> care to make a wager on the upcoming series between the Rangers and the Jays? - 15:00:00 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: For several days I have been at the theochat zoo watchin'those critters. A thought or two formed while watching them post assorted things to each other. One was "superstition"- the tool, that they use as a defense and offense for their point of view. The other thought of them is related to the idea of their "living bible", that is for them to play as some pseudoscientist. At times, its been said of their making the biblical scriptures meaningful in todays world, that they do so as if rewinding a slow running clock, pehaps this is the religious adherent merely engaging in a pseudoscientific-like thing? Afterall, again, where is the godthing? I have seen anything that says its anywhere. All I can make out are some people tryin'to make sense of things, but will be dead before ever knowing anything meaningful. I just read that the hometown of jc was probably a place once called gamla, but not nazareth. Gamla was a anti-roman terrorist stronghold of jews, that paul did not want affiliated with his baby, the church. - 16:24:35 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:Amends: The fourth to last sentence should have included a "not", as; I have NOT seen anything, etc.etc. - 16:28:32 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVEN..I will be unemployed in 3 days (yahoo!!!!!!) and so am not in a position to enter into any wagers at the moment. However, given the way the Jays have been playing of late, I think they will kick some Texan prime rib! - 19:26:54 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Steven:JOETTE<<>> I was thinking about wagering a buck for each game, hehe, all two of them. But if you are strapped I understand. I never wager more than a one dollar bill, that way I don't have to be concerned about convering it. I wonder what that would be in Canadian money, do they convert 1 buck for 1 buck. I have never seen Canadian money, do you call a canadian one dollar bill a dollar, apound, a frank? - 20:27:23 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVEN..okay, one dollar per game. If you win, you send me $2.00. If I lose, I owe you $3.00 at current market prices. We call our one dollar a "loonie" as it is a coin with a loon on one side. Our two is a "twoonie", as it is also a coin. I can handle that amount of a bet. Let's go Blue Jays! - 20:35:27 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Joette..follow me, I'm the Pied Piper...:-->STEVEN..btw, I am going to unemployed by choice. I need a break. I intend to sell off all my worldly possessions and walk the earth. - 20:37:17 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:JO-teChang: That sure has appearances appeal. - 21:13:04 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Farmer Vincent:The "O" on the sign is burned out for I am a resider there. - 22:34:54 on 1 Sep 98 GMT

Adam PEOPLE ARE STRANGE WHEN YOU'RE A RANGER 같같렁렁:WORD ASSOCIATION FOOTBALL Hey, I'll take the same action as Steve on behalf of Texas, even tho' they got no pitching. Then again, Jo's already gwan be on der hook fer a bunch on the Big Bat Bets. By the way, that's an albatross, not a loon. The Loon in June can't even buy a PRUNE. Hey, I can name that prune in two pits. Hey, who you callins' TOOPIT? To pit (v. intran.) to set against, as in battle or contest, e.g. it takes no intellectual effort to pit oneself against these two-pit theists; If I were to pit myself against the pansy-ass lord of the fools Jesus of Nazibreath, I surely would kick his scrawny bastard ass! I agree that you would, but stop calling me Shirley. Speaking of Shirley, surely only a fool would waste time building a Temple in which to pray to a figment of the imagination... - 0:33:04 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

Farmer Vincent:Adam ,,, surely I can imagine much meat. Airplanes make s.r....r. of us all. Give us distance much too easily. The ground plants a harvest of much under the sign. Happily Peano's inverted epsilon has caught on, in informal mathematical contexts, as a sign purely for 'such that'; and I shall so use it. Much meat, Imaginos. - 1:11:08 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

Joette..to coin a phrase:-->ADAM...you want a loonie and twoonie too? Gee, if I win the bet, I'll be rich and wealthy! - 2:00:53 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

http://jab.datachan.com/neutron/ladydeath/ladydeath01.jpg - 2:39:38 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

r-p-o-p-h-e-s-s-a-g-r r-p-o-p-h-e-s-s-a-g-r who a)s w(e loo)k upnowgath PPEGORHRASS eringint(o- aThe):l eA !p: S a (r rIvInG.gRrEaPsPhOs) to rea(be)rran(com)gi(e)ngly ,grasshopper;halloween h2o e.e. cummings - 3:26:02 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

mrs. plumber:Awake. Shake dreams from you hair, my pretty child, my sweet one. Choose the day and the 'sign' of your day, the day's divinity, first thing you see. A vast radiant beach in a cool jeweled moon, couples naked race down by its quiet side, and we laugh like soft, mad children, smug in the wooly cotton brains of infancy. The music and voices are all around us. Choose, they crooned, the ancient ones. The time has come again. Choose now, they croon beneath the moon, Beside an ancient lake. Enter again the sweet forest, enter the hot dream, come with us. Everything is broken up, and dances - 3:32:24 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:ADAM- Or writing books like _ Out On a Limb_. - 3:58:37 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

Napoleon:Good work there Mr. Wormly! These are the rates of this noon's date::: Rate: French Franc per 1 United States Dollar: 5.868500... Rate: United States Dollar per 1 French Franc O.170401... Yes I see out the window too Mr. Wormly. The truck 'blew' up. The gas key dangles in the inside while the basement door is locked from the outside. - 3:58:55 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

Sigmund Freud:Farmer Vincent, Mrs Plumber, and assorted anonymous weirdoes. Apparently you derive some sort of satisfaction from your oddball postings. It's mental masturbation. The only ones you are pleasuring are ypurselves. - 4:25:28 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

There was a nice girl who loved rain She was near a white window pane Her eyes were bright blue And she loved white glue She lived on the street Candy Lane. - 4:26:26 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

There once was a cook with a book And how did the cook read a book He read and he read Standing on his head Then he said, "What an ugly ugly book!" - 4:27:23 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

There once was a man who loved trees He climbed them when there were no bees He sat on a limb Although it was thin And fell to the ground on his knees. - 4:28:02 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

oh it is not tuesday 'now' 'now' it dances and skips to the next day - 4:32:52 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

now dances - 4:33:29 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

now dances a grasshopper - 4:33:56 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

- 4:45:33 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

ypursel(v)es - 4:56:16 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

fricative reliance, a monkey shines certainly - 4:57:04 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

bUT Keri Tate cut your head off,,, Mike - 4:58:19 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

= - 5:12:31 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

+ conjunction - 5:14:10 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

- a cowl - 5:14:43 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

Russ-T-Pipes.........:Mary had a little lamb, she tied it to a pylon.....10,000 volts shot up its ass, and turned its wool to nylon. - 10:51:09 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

A TREAT FOR ALL......:http://eccentrica.org/wshadow/guides/guide2.html - 11:30:12 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

Steven :ALL<<>> Am I the only one that is sick of all the frigging SPAM! Damn, isn't there a law against this crap now. Whomever the board admin is, please check the IP address from the jerks who are spamming the site, and block them. This has been going on for months now, enough is enough. Is not RON the board admin now? Is not school back in session, or is the spammer doing from his elem school. Well, probably Jr High, but either way this is getting tired. - 14:16:21 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: The treat now that was sick, and funny funny funny. It looks like an adaptation of a bit out of Juliette or Justine, by M.DeSade. - 15:03:13 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVEN..did you go back and see the post where I have agreed to make that bet? - 18:07:53 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

0. Electronic Frontier Canada This site is run by Canada's premier organization dedicated to protecting freedom of expression and the right to privacy in cyberspace. Are you a member yet? Web site: http://www.efc.ca/ 1. Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) This group is the largest, oldest, and best-funded organization devoted to civil liberties in cyberspace. It is host to huge archives, but is devoted to the American perspective. Web site: http://www.eff.org/ 2. Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) This is another American public interest group devoted to the preservation of privacy in new electronic technologies. Web site: http://cpsr.org/cpsr/privacy/epic/epic.html 3. The Anonymizer Through this site you can surf the Web without leaving a trail of digital footprints. Web site: http://www.anonymizer.com/ 4. CensorScan A project of Canadian journalist Donna Laframboise, the CensorScan site keeps you informed on what those busybodies at Canada Customs are up to. Web site: http://www.razberry.com/raz/censor/top.htm 5. Chronicle of Freedom of Expression in Canada This site tells the sad history of Canadian censorship. It is put together by the Periodical Writers Association of Canada and the Book and Periodical Council, both based in Toronto. Web site: http://www.efc.ca/pages/chronicle/ 6. LoGIC: the Legal Group for the Internet in Canada A group of Canadian lawyers interested in the Internet and its legal implications operates this site. It is also home to the Digital Doomsday Clock. Web site: http://www.catalaw.com/logic/ 7. American Civil Liberties Union "Cyber-Liberties" Page The ACLU is the only organization in the world with deep enough pockets to be able to fight effectively against government censorship of the Net. Read the details of the U.S. Supreme Court battle that began March 19 and will have lasting impact around the world. Web site: http://www.aclu.org/issues/cyber/ 8. Declan McCullagh's Fight Censorship Mailing List Archive It ain't pretty, but it's the most comprehensive and up-to-date archive of what's happening on the front lines in the fight to protect freedom of expression in cyberspace. Web site: http://www.eff.org/~declan/fc/ FTP site: ftp://vorlon.mit.edu/pub/f-c/ 9. Electronic Frontiers Australia (EFA) This is EFC's sister organization down under. Since Australia's size, heritage, and laws are similar to Canada's, EFA's successes and failures in battling online censorship documented at this site serve as valuable lessons for Canadians. Web site: http://www.efa.org.au/ 10. Student Association for Freedom of Expression (SAFE) Censor Bait page These MIT students have gathered together a collection of links at this site to all kinds of controverial stuff on the Net that many university administrators don't want students to see. Do you dare look? Web site: http://www.mit.edu:8001/activities/safe/home.html The Most Frequently Banned Books in the 1990s This list is taken from the table of contents of Banned in the U.S.A. by Herbert N. Foerstel. It shows the fifty books that were most frequently challenged in schools and public libraries in the United States between 1990 and 1992. Banned in the U.S.A. has more information about the efforts to ban each title. (Here's the publisher's information on the book.) The list is reprinted here with permission from the publisher. Most of the books in this list are still copyrighted, and not available on-line at this time. Those that are available have hyperlinks to the text. There may also be links to pages with more information about certain authors. Impressions Edited by Jack Booth et al. Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz The Witches by Roald Dahl Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell Blubber by Judy Blume Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam A Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman Christine by Stephen King I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou Fallen Angels by Walter Myers The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder Night Chills by Dean Koontz Lord of the Flies by William Golding now usurp A Separate Peace by John Knowles Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut The Color Purple by Alice Walker James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks and also will censor The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck Cujo by Stephen King The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak Grendel by John Champlin Gardner I Have to Go by Robert Munsch Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain The Pigman by Paul Zindel My House by Nikki Giovanni Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween Symbols by Edna Barth One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz. Use the IP Addresses Configuration page to assign the Internet Protocol (IP) addresses for dial-in users and to configure an IP address pool. Choose IP Addresses from the Configure drop-down list on the Configuration window to access this page. - 18:19:56 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

Steven :JOETTE<<>> Ja, I saw, and I am looking forward to that half a six pack I can buy, hehe. Actually, I may use it for Tollway money. - 18:23:25 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

Steven :SPAMMER<<>> lunch break? Does your school have off campus? - 18:24:40 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

half a six pack = 3 ...of raptors calling some druid bullshit - 18:26:08 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN1: If any get to the Berkeley area, then be sure to have on your itinerary, visit Moes book store. There today I was able to pick a book titled "The lost books of the Bible" its probably a quick and dirty of the apocraphic collection. I saw that one of the tales the ole'church connivers left out was a tale o'the power o'the young jc who was struck by another child so jc ended the other lads'life. Some god story! But to visit the store you will find more good stuff. - 20:13:40 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

Man kann sich nicht beurteilen, wenn man sich in den Kategorien nicht auskennt. (Freges Schreibart ist manchmal gross; Freud schreibt ausgezeichnet, und es ist ein Vergnugen, ihn zu lesen, aber er ist nie gross in seinem Schreiben.) - 20:28:43 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

1987 --- Bet Twice---1980--- Temperence Hill---1960 --- Celtic A - 20:44:57 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->ANY...a question of ethics...a 73 year old man in my town is on trial now for war crimes committed during the second world war. It seems he was a member of some group that rounded up Partisan groups and once they were questioned, were shot to death. This man failed to provide this information on his immigration papers when he came to Canada in the '50's, but was discovered to have this heinous past several years ago. He is a millionaire, and has contributed much to this community. His supporters are claiming that he should be forgiven because he was such a fine citizen, and because the war ended 53 years ago, there's no point in prosecuting at this point in time. It is my own opinion that if you do the crime, you pay the time, no matter how much time has passed. Opinions anyone? - 22:31:39 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: Could be a tough call, what if he was just the water boy? May it be supposed that he killed anyone, as in pulling the trigger? Or lets suppose that at the time he feared for his life, who has to die then, him or them? Or what if the circumstances prevailed that in his experiences- at the time, naturally prevented him from coming to a reasonable intelligent decision, as in he was just a kid? But I agree if he did a crime, let him face up to a trial. - 22:57:03 on 2 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- I don't think you'll agree with me as many don't but I feel that whatever happened during war was likely done as result of orders. I think when one is ordered to do something during a war, one almost has to do it. There is an old saying, "all's fair in love and war". There have been some really nasty things done to people during a war by some people who I am sure wouldn't do such things again. Americans did some nasty things to people during the Vietnam War, Canadians during WW1 and WW11, Germans and Japanese, English and French, US Cavalry and the Native Americans, RCMP and the First Nations, the Arabs and the Jews, North and the South...etc. etc. etc. War is a terrible thing because of the mindset of the people involved in it. When the war is over, the mindset changes. - 1:34:35 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

TO --- ---- ---- A TREAT FOR ALL.......:Our laboratory uses the vertebrate olfactory system as a model to examine the question of how the information contained in a large number of different odor molecules is converted into information contained in membrane signals and neural space. One of our present goals is to determine the sequence of cellular and molecular events in the olfactory receptor cells that allow for functions such as odor detection, odor discrimination, signal amplification, and olfactory adaptation. This includes issues of signal transduction, second messenger generation (cAMP, cGMP, IP3, Ca2+, nitric oxide, carbon monoxide), and ion channel gating.A cell-attached patch recording from an isolated salamander olfactory receptor cell is made during a brief stimulation with a pulse of odor (amyl acetate, acetophenone and cineole at 1 mM in Ringer) delivered at the arrow. - 1:40:53 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE..I am in full agreement with you, so not to worry. However, this person lied on his application to enter Canada, so that is also an issue. Even though he would not have been allowed entry into our lovely land where we recognize God as Supreme (yeah, right), and the immigration people didn't do there job at the time, I think that he now has to suffer the consequences of his actions. Little white lies always turn into big black lies. (and maybe the millions he has now were as a result of the misdeeds he was part of .....) - 1:58:16 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

Napoleon:Mr.Wormly I see the cubist portrait of Guillaume Apollinaire on the wall too. I know it is ALCOOLS, but L'ENCHANTEUR POURRISSANT the censor zombies break the windows suddenly. Oh what now Barbra, ok, you are going to walk pass them and bring help. Wait Copper, that TV set stays upstairs by Georges Henein, by george or Georgette crepe. - 2:07:51 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

http://www.randomhouse.com/polgara/story/index.html---re(v)erse ..p - 2:43:56 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

It's a start," Poledra said cryptically. "Now then, daughter," she said to Polgara, "it won't be all that difficult. I'll talk with him, and he'll show you how to do it without all that foolishness with quill pens and ink. It's your obligation, so stop complaining." "It shall be as my mother wishes," Polgara replied. - 2:55:09 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

WIT'CH FIRE Book One of The Banned and the Banished by James Clemens A magnificent epic of dazzling magic and searing prophecy From a brilliant new voice in fantasy comes a band of heroes, a world in peril, and an unforgettable heroine whose unexpected gift of magic awakens an ancient, slumbering evil. On a fateful night five centuries ago, three mages made a desperate last stand, sacrificing everything to preserve the only hope of goodness in the beautiful, doomed land of Alasea. Now, on the anniversary of that ominous night, a girl-child ripens into the heritage of lost power. But before she can even comprehend her terrible new gift, the Dark Lord dispatches his winged monsters to capture her and bring him the embryonic magic she embodies. Fleeing the minions of darkness, Elena is swept toward certain doom--and into the company of unexpected allies. Aided by a one-armed warrior and a strange seer, she forms a band of the hunted and the cursed, the outcasts and the outlaws, to battle the unstoppable forces of evil and rescue a once-glorious empire... Reader Reviews Overall, this was a good book and I enjoyed reading it. The opening line of the book, "First of all, the author is a LIAR." caught my immediate attention and raised my eyebrows. As openings go, it created a strong DESIRE to read on. The warning, followed by the narrative introduction, caught my interest but also produces a staggering amount of expectation by telling the reader that the very topic, much less the story itself, is forbidden ORAL knowledge. - 3:06:49 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

Farmer Vincent:Progress from racing horses stuffed into dog cans to eating dog flesh to my famous fritters. Meat's meat, and a man's gotta eat. I like to remove their vocal chords and let their bodies flavor in the soil. - 3:54:54 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- Ah ha! A whole nother issue! If the said person profitted from war crimes then the money would be a great help to those who suffered as a result of the crimes. After all, it's only money and if the guy is truly sorry for his inhumanity then it's a small consolation. You wouldn't believe the number of people in this country that have lied to be here! And why for RTL's christ's sake! It's colder than RTL's attitude toward atheists, so socialist a Russian could feel at home here and we have third world currency. BTW, I just finished watching this week's OZ, wait to you see what "comes over" Anabesi (sp) and how Sied (sp again) addresses the PTA! - 4:23:14 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

Throughout the Heart of Darkness, Conrad uses many different stylistic devices in order to illustrate to the reader the differeces in attitude between the darkness, Africa and the unknown, and the light, Europe and the civilization. These style devices include: repetition, personification, parallel phrases, and symbolism. First of all, I must tell you that the references I will make will be to the book itself, not the Norton Anthology so the page numbers will be off. The book is called, Heart of Darkness and The Secret Sharer. Conrad uses repetition throughout H.D. He loves the two worded phares "brooding gloom." "Brood gloom" is used to describe the captain's, the Director of Companies on the boat at the dock, work. Conrad also stated that "The air was dark above Gravesend, and further back still seemed condensed into a mournful gloom, brooding...." In this statemenst the word order is reversed, but still the same effect (p.65). On p.67, Conrad states,"And further west on the upper reaches the place of the monstrous town was still marked ominously on the sky, a brooding gloom in sunshine, a lurid glare under the stars." "...Stricken to death by the touch of that gloom brooding over a crowd of men." These statements that all include the words "brooding gloom" add the dreary attitude to the descriptions Conrad is making, between the dark and light worlds. Conrad also uses personification throughout H.D. On p.79, "...As if Nature herself had tried to ward off intruders;...streams of death in life, whose banks were rotting into mud, whose waters, thickened into slime, invaded the contorted mangroves, that seemed to writhe at us in the extremity of an impotent despair." This illustrates the drab and unfit atmosphere that Marlow entered where one's life was not a guarantee from one day to the next due to diseases and such. On p.81,"Then I nearly fell into a very narrow ravine, almost no more than a scar in the hillside." By giving the hill the life-like characterisitic of a scar, Conrad tells his readers a little more about Africa and its invaders. This refers to the Europeans trying to come and change the African culture to fit the European standards leaving unwanted and unnecessary scars on the earth, the natives, and the intruders. On p.93,"Beyond the fence the forest stood up spectrally in the moonlight, and through the dim stir, through the faint sounds of that lamentable courtyards, the silence of the land went home to one's very heart--its mystery, its greatness, the amazing reality of its concealed life." I feel the beauty and the power of nature in this statement. I can imagine why Conrad described it so, because I'm sure that most of the Europeans had not experienced or seen the beauty of wildness, they only know the beauty of civilization. Conrad uses this statement to try to show the people that even though they may seem uncivilized to the Europeans, the Europeans are the one's that are appearing ruthless and wild by invading and taking over a country and a place that does not belong to them--the natural description emphasizes the fact that all is well in Africa without the foreiners. Conrad personifies nature again on p.104,"Trees,trees, millions of trees, massive, immense, running up high; and at their foot, hugging the bank against the stream, crept the little begrimmed steamboat, like a sluggish beetle crawling on the floor of a lofty portico." I feell that this heightens the power of nature through the description of the trees and belittles the effect one steamboat will have on an entire country. This little steamboat will not be able to overcome the massive trees, the trees/nature will win out in the end. On p.121,"...the wilderness burst into a prodigious peal of laughter that would shake the fixed stars in their places." Here, Conrad is mocking Kurtz because I think that he feels he is the center of the universe in Africa and Europe's eye, but in reality he is not and even Mother Nature knows the truth that Kurtz is blinded to but everyone else sees. On p.152, Conrad notes "It was a moment of triumph for the wilderness." In this statement I feel they mean that Africa is finally rid of Kurtz and all his evils. In the personal war ( Kurtz vs all of Africa), this comment illustrates that the battle was long and hard, but nature won. Another stylistic device that is used frequently is the use of parallel phrases and words. On p.68, "...death--death skulking in the air, in the water, in the bush." This description of the scattered military camps in the thick wilderness gives off dreaded attitude, almost a "no-win situation" once one has been sentenced to a Eurpean military camp in Africa. The repetion of death emphasizes this feeling and the parallel phrase illustrate the surrounded and dooming effect these camps and their surroundings have on the campers. The use of parallel words are used to describe the coast from a French steamer (p.77),"There it is before you--smiling, frowning, inviting, grand, mean, insipid, or savage, and always mute...." I feel that these are just the different emotions and feelings that are and can be felt upon leaving shore for an unknown destination or sea for a lengthy period of time. On p.81,"I've seen the devil of violence, and the devil of greed, and the devil of hot desire...." I feel that Mralow is just thinking about all the evils of the earth and people that he has come into contact with and how they have affected his judgement and responses. The most memorable parallel words/repetitious words in H.D. is Kurtz's cry on p.147, "The horror! The horror!" Butterfinger! - 4:26:49 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

PETER:--Joette--Phry da phucker I say - 4:51:13 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

mrs. plumber:Big cheese make me Mine says, "Go to the office" Big cheese Make me Mine says, "One that stays" Black is black, straight back Need more enemies Show you all what a man is Big lies make my Mine says "Go to the office" Big cheese Make me Message? What is it? Black is black straight back Need more enemies She is glue how are you? - 4:56:14 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

This is God's choce.................: The Associated Press B L A N D F O R D, Nova Scotia, Sept. 3 � By all accounts it was a pleasant evening on Peggys Cove, with a light wind and medium seas, when suddenly a plane roared down from the sky and crashed into the cold water, leaving a large field of floating debris and jet fuel stretched over two miles. 밒 heard a huge crash, like thunder,� said Wilfred Morash, a resident of Blandford. 밫hen all of the sudden on my scanner the alarms went off and they said a plane had gone down in Peggys Cove.� Within minutes fisherman and local boaters were searching for survivors in the debris, making frantic radio calls to the Halifax Search and Rescue Center, said navy spokeswoman Tracy Simoneau. Rescuers said the air was thick with the smell of jet fuel, she added. �(The debris) is spread out over a very large area,� said John Campbell, a charter boat captain, calling from his boat. Soon all of the available ships from this small fishing community, accustomed to making rescues in the often violent North Atlantic, converged on the crash site. Coast Guard helicopters hovered overhead and a navy refueling ship, the HMCS Preserver, steamed into the bay. Luggage, Styrofoam and Bodies Above the helicopters, a large navy C-130 Hercules airplane circled, searching the water with advanced rescue equipment, dropped flares that lit the black water in an orange glow. 밫hey are mobilizing fishing boats and anything to head out,� said Eleanor McMahon, vacationing in the Blandford area. 밒t is very eerie. Nothing happens here.� As the ships and helicopters played spotlights across the 61-degree water, jet fuel shimmered off the surface. Luggage, Styrofoam and bodies bobbed up and down in the waves, Campbell said. 밒t뭩 almost a floating city with the number of boats here. They are making repeated calls that they are finding bodies and human remains,� a reporter for the Canadian Broadcasting Corp., Rob Gordon, said by telephone from one of the boats. He said the largest piece of debris was a shredded life raft. - 12:26:24 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

TO ALL,,,,,,,,:I love the "lets be nice to everybody" on this page until its something you disagree with. .....while here,,,,,wasnt it 6 not 12 million Joette? - 12:33:25 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

IN THE NAME OF GOD.....SURVEY>....:The "Regular" regulars to this page are very few. Lots of blowins though. I'm going to do a long term survey of people with not much else to do....details (obviously) when things pan out....This will include/exclude god, and other catagories as they fall into place. Of course the "hardliners" will bitch......so! - 13:27:04 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:SURVEYWOMAN: Casually flitting about the net, peeking in on various participants at sites as this, for example, all those others also seem to have but a regular few. Is this the target of your survey? - 14:22:14 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- I didn't see any gender description in "Survey's" post. Since he/she mentioned "blowins" have you automatically linked that to a tropical storm, lol! SURVEY- Does this mean you haven't much to do as well? - 14:34:45 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:TOO ALL,,,,,etc.----Since when are we nice to everybody? I have no problem with differences of opinions, why do you? - 14:37:28 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:STEVEN- I agree, this spaming is ridiculous! There must be a druid chat we could direct him to???? - 14:39:16 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: My engenderment was just to add some zest to the post. Here, I first envisioned a dry, skin flaking, thin haired, bespeckled but resting at the tip o'the nose statistican. Instead well, I saw well you know what I could make out. - 15:46:26 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- That was zesty,lol! I suspect it was actually one of our spammers. Are you also an American who doesn't know what our currency looks like? As Canadians, I think almost all of us know what American currency looks like but I noticed when I was trucking Stateside that most Americans thought a $5 bill was play money. - 16:30:28 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: I have seen Canadian paper currency, but here such is a rare encounter, maybe its my location. - 17:06:19 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->ANONYMOUSE...there were more victims of Hitler's regime than just the Jewish, homosexual and other "non-arian" types that lost their lives. Soldiers and civilians caught up in the war were also victims. Or don't you agree? - 17:51:12 on 3 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- One more day??? Yee-Haw! - 3:27:22 on 4 Sep 98 GMT

Steven :JOETTE<<>> from what I understand Hitler harbored homosexuals. Hell the leaders and half the S.A. were homosexuals. Roehm, and Edmond Heines were avid homosexual perverts. - 15:09:19 on 4 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:STEVEN- I didn't know that! Were they homosexual or bisexual? Is this in the book _Mein Kamph_(sp)? I've never read it. - 16:07:34 on 4 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene.:I bet our Joette-ta is having a going away party at work and is ignoring us! LOL - 16:10:13 on 4 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Speakin'of adolph, just left readin the Jerusalem post, an Israeli news rag, one of the bits was a piece composed by a rabbi. The topic was, when is it right to kill, this act per the dictates of a godthing o'course. Of all the people in the world, it seems that the jewish people of all people would not want to have anything to do with a godthing that has in writing when its ok to kill. Did not adolph have such a written plan. Surely atheism- as it may concern that particular godthing, is the only and correct option. No god is good. - 16:47:42 on 4 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (One lump or two?):MARLENE: Perhaps it should be"Mein camp" ? STEVEN: "Harbouring homosexuals" -aren't they known as sailors? ALL: Tea, anyone? Trust me - you can't beat it made with real Yangzi water (though the floating corpses were a little off-putting). Anyway, just got back home from Hong Kong (flew) and thought I'd see what's going down (other than El Presidente)... - 17:40:37 on 4 Sep 98 GMT

Steven:MARLENE<<>> it is in "The Rise and Fall of The Third Reich". Hitler would harbor anyone that would take up the cause of the Nazi party. Heines was also a convicted murderer. When I say homosexual perverts, i am not implying that gay people are perverted. What I am saying is they had all male orgies, little boys etc. etc. which to me is, ummmm perverted. From Hitlers own words, "I do not consider it to be a task of a political leader, to attempt to improve upon, or even to fuse together, the human material lying ready to his hand". Obviously Hitler cared not about whom served under him as long as the helped the party. - 17:54:23 on 4 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVEN...any civilian homosexuals that were found were treated the same as Jews, except they had to wear pink stars, instead of the famous yellow star. There were thousands of homosexuals that were sent off to the death camps. - 19:37:18 on 4 Sep 98 GMT

Joette..free as a bird...:-->MARLENE..yup, the dreaded going away party, rife with bad jokes, lots of food, tears, hugging and kissing (got some nice gifts though). I am feeling wierd...I have always had a job, so now I don't know whether to relax or panic....hmmm... - 19:39:20 on 4 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->ROB..El Presidente is the nickname of a major league player (Dennis Martinez) because he once pitched a perfect game, and became a national hero in his home country of Nicaragua. You been holding out on me? You some kind of closet baseball fan? LOL! - 19:42:47 on 4 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->ROB..wouldn't it be "mein cottage"? - 19:44:19 on 4 Sep 98 GMT

Steven :JOETTE<<>> When you get the time read this link... http://www.glinn.com/pink/APSC06.HTM - 20:50:22 on 4 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVEN..sounds like some hard core gay bashing going on there. - 21:12:24 on 4 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (coming out of the closet and into the ball park):JOETTE: I'd rather it be "mein mountin' lodge" STEVEN: Rise and Fall Of the Third Reich... I can see why now ;) - 21:38:20 on 4 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->ROB..I was suggesting Wilde, not The Everly Brothers. - 22:04:12 on 4 Sep 98 GMT

Rob:JOETTE: Sorry, must have confused it with a Dream - 22:20:34 on 4 Sep 98 GMT

Steven:ROB<<>> I would have to fervently agree with you. However I have not read anything to suggest that Homosexuals were looked for and put in concentration camps. The Jews, Slavs, Gypsys sure but Homosexuals, not so sure. If I read something that is coclusive, or definitive on the subject then of course my understanding of the subject will change. The Nazis were filthy, disgusting individuals, and it would be silly of me to say that there were not hundreds, possible thousands of homosexuals who were persecuted, and excecuted by the hands of the Nazis. There may have even been incidences of homosexuals wearing pink stars. But the Nazi goon squads from every credible source i have read, did not search for gay people to send to concentration camps. If I am incorrect about this then someone please point to the source of information. You must remember, if not for an overzealous leader, the nation of Germany would be in control of all of Europe. But then again, without Hitler, the nation of Germany might never had invaded anyone. - 0:12:42 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

Steven :JOETTTE<<>> i didn't get a chance to really peruse through the site I linked. If it is what you say it is then I apologize for that was not my intention. - 0:20:04 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

EX_ATHEISTS:You cannot successfully argue with an Ex_Atheists because you only use the same arguments he once did. - 3:45:01 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

EX_ATHEISTS:"You cannot successfully argue with an Ex_Atheist because you only use the same arguments he once used." (Quote from Robert T. Lee). - 3:47:05 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

EX_ATHEIST:"You cannot successfully argue with an Ex_Atheist because you only use the same arguments he once used." (Quote from Robert T. Lee). - 3:47:25 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

EX_ATHEIST:"You cannot successfully argue against God with an Ex_Atheist because you only use the same arguments he once used." (Quote from Robert T. Lee). - 3:48:19 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

Grant:EX-- Then "he" should be at least aware of such arguments and be able to counter them. You haven't a clue what the issues are, IMO. I would say you were scatterbrained and irrational if or when you were an atheist too. - 3:55:29 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:RTL- Get a life! - 4:08:11 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (Don't pent it all up):'EX-PEST: How a bout 5th time lucky -"You cannot successfully argue against God with Ex_Atheist because you only use the same arguments he once abused." (Quote from Rob) GRANT: Concerning RTL's rebuttal, perhaps he could get something "over the counter" (so to speak) if he tried a little harder. - 12:35:33 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

READ THE RULES AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE......:In the previous 60 posts, GOD is mentioned 11 times. - 13:14:44 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

Grant:ROB-- Welcome back! Afraid the quality of religionist posters here hasn't improved in your absence. RTL doesn't offer anything to think about- just gives us the raspberry. - 13:27:00 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

Grant:PAGE POLICE-- You need a hobby. - 13:27:57 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

HI GRANT. RIGHT UP YOUR STREET>>>>>:http://www.gayraunch.com/pre.html - 14:02:16 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (In relation to the posts above):GRANT: Give me lack of quality in place of quantity anyday ;) READY RULER: So what you saying -we have to make more references to entities we don't believe in? Didn't read that bit in the "rules"... - 14:17:46 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (Just being faecetious):READY RULER: So that's where you get your material... - 14:26:29 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene..full of questions:ROB- Being more Canadianized than my parents, I drink coffee in the first part of the day but still have my tea at night and the good ole black Indian Cyleon(sp) type. I'll stick to the well water though although a comparison to the river water in China would be our Red River (of the north, for the American posters). Now...tell us..are 95% of the people of China as religious as the rest of the world and just what do they believe? - 14:30:30 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

Grant:PAGE POLICE-- OK, so you have a hobby. Not my cuppa tea but thanks for thinking of me. :-) - 14:37:34 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene..these xtians!:ROB- Is that RTL's other webpage? - 14:38:52 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:GRANT- God and pornography, RTL is a boring guy! - 14:40:26 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

Grant:MARLENE-- I'm sure he's only spying on pornographers for God! It's a dirty job... - 14:48:32 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (Only here to confuscious):MARLENE: Well not really (remember Communism). There is some token Islam and Xtianity, though Buddhism is what you would be most likely to find. Although they have been persecuted (i.e Tibet), the fact there are lots of Buddhist tourist attractions means it now actually gets a bit of peace and money from the government. But though most are not religious, there is a sense of spiritual awareness -with very many doing Tai Chi before breakfast. In fact it is an impressive sight to see, a park full of people moving synchronously, almost like ballet dancers. But the kind of religion there, such as Buddhism, seems more symbolic than literal (at least when comparing against something like the "xtian science" movement). BTW, I doubt that site is RTL's. He likes his self-righteousness much too much to entertain any repressed desires. - 15:18:06 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene..just the grasshopper again:ROB- So since the people there do not have "god", at least many of them, I would deduct, using RTL's method, that they are terribly immoral. In fact, it may be THOSE people who put up that porno website! I would think that they have no hope, have no capacity for love and spend all their time inventing things like computers! - 16:07:33 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (Sod'em):MARLENE: I think they're all too busy sacrificing virgins to get up to anything immoral -right RTL? - 17:16:44 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->I was not going to make any comment on the idiot that posted that pornographic address, but all I can say is that whomever stooped so low is a very sad sort indeed. I guess he/she is merely looking for a reaction. yawn. - 21:44:01 on 5 Sep 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:America is rapidly declining morally. This country is in a terrible moral decay state. Please my fellow citizens, let us take serious note to what is happening to this nation and begin at this moment to work to reverse its moral decline. He or she who rejects this message or refuses to take it seriously prove that they are partly responsible for the terrible state of America. All who have sense enough to understand the seriousness of this message should reject all foolish responses to iy. http://www.tencommandments.org - 6:28:27 on 6 Sep 98 GMT

"How's that couple coming along in double emersion tank No. 187?" "Don't look at it, boss, it's too horrible. Tley're meltng together, and one is eating the other inside." "Selbstverstaiidlich," snapped the Herr Doktor. "And vat did you think would happen, so stupid American swine?" At this point, a most regrettable brawl broke out in the operation room, overturning nutrient tanks, jars, aquari- ums, sloshing monstrous larval being across the floor the scientists slip about slashing at each other with scalpels and bone saws screaming. "Well, we got the orders, and I done the job, wife and kids on my back." "Look what a dumnheit." "Smells through the outhouse, doctor." "Run for it, chaps. They're actives." Last seen swimming desperately in erogenous sewage. The entire project was lost. Who is the manager here? You see what I mean?... Such knowledge in the wrong hands could be quite unfortunate! - 11:32:19 on 6 Sep 98 GMT

YAWN*******:"""Joette:-->I was not going to make any comment on the idiot that posted that pornographic address""" but I couldnt resist having my little say. - 13:14:57 on 6 Sep 98 GMT

GOD :only mentioned 6 times in the previous 60 posts. - 13:19:17 on 6 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->YAWN..touche - 13:39:52 on 6 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (Counting by numbers...):GOD: -so much for being omnipresent then. - 13:56:01 on 6 Sep 98 GMT

me things Hamish has returned. Putting the blame on others for all the spamming... - 14:09:55 on 6 Sep 98 GMT

... - 1:40:29 on 7 Sep 98 GMT

... - 12:44:21 on 7 Sep 98 GMT

... - 14:08:45 on 7 Sep 98 GMT

Peewee Herman:connect the dots..la la connect the dots la la - 14:57:22 on 7 Sep 98 GMT

... - 15:59:45 on 7 Sep 98 GMT

... - 16:00:24 on 7 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:Hey, what is this? Everybody having a good time down on the bayou or something this weekend?????? Hope the Canadians are having a good LaboUr day, and you Americans having a good Labor Day. - 16:12:33 on 7 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- And it's labour I'm celebrating too! It time to do the yard...yuck! - 21:04:38 on 7 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE..that's a laboUr of love though isn't it? Are the leaves falling as fast and furious there as they are here? Yesterday it was 30 degrees, today only about 10. Time for nesting. - 22:03:10 on 7 Sep 98 GMT

...p...u...g...g...l...e...s... - 22:04:20 on 7 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->ROB...I just got your "Sod 'em" joke. Not too thick, what? - 22:05:19 on 7 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (Joining the dots):JOETTE: You shouldn't look back at Sod'em like that... you might have got asalted ;) - 22:12:04 on 7 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:ROB...bugger, you are a bright one! - 22:22:22 on 7 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (Do you think she turned to sod-ium chloride?):...though you should be so anal about reading past posts ;) - 22:45:51 on 7 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->ROB...anal? I had some good lines ready, but now you have wrecked 'em. - 23:05:53 on 7 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (fuck, shit, bum, bugger):JOETTE: Sorry, sorry, please excuse me in my dotage (I am retiring now) - 23:09:32 on 7 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->ROB..I don't think you understood my joke, just like "sod 'em" went over my head. Obviously we'd never make a comedy writing team! - 23:54:30 on 7 Sep 98 GMT

DGreat:What happend here? Where is everybody? - 4:01:38 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (A brush with death):JOETTE: Oh, O.K. As long as you realise you weren't the butt of my joke ;) DGREAT: Are you an archaelogist? - 10:00:23 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

SOMETHING YOU WILL ALL LIKE^^^^^^^^^^^: Like all the other religions of God, Islam (Submission in English) promotes peace, love and harmony among the people. Actually the word "Islam" in addition to meaning submission (to God), also, is derived from the Arabic word Salam (peace). The Muslims (Submitters) greet each other and other people by saying Salam (Peace upon you). "O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant. " [49:13] The theme in the Quran is peace as long as there is no oppression or injustice. Islam has always been promoting and working for peace. The relations of Moslems with others are primarily based on peace and confidence. Islam refuses the killing of innocent people, irrespective of their religions or beliefs. Quran, the Muslims holy book declares it clear in 2:256 "There shall be no compulsion in religion". Islam condemns the killing of people merely because they embrace a different religion. It does not allow Moslems to fight against those who disagree with them on religious questions. It urges the Muslims to treat such people kindly and equitably: "GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable." [60:8] "If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." [8:61] "...... those who join people with whom you have signed a peace treaty, and those who come to you wishing not to fight you, nor fight their relatives. Had GOD willed, He could have permitted them to fight against you. Therefore, if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them." [4:90] Many terrorists groups have used the name Islam to promote their cause and this gave the West a chance to attack Islam and label the Muslims as terrorists. The West on the other hand deliberately ignores labeling terrorists as Christians or Jewish when they are. Terrorism as an act of violence has been committed by people from all religious and political backgrounds. Christian terrorists ( e.g. Bosnia, Ireland, Nazi) and Jewish terrorists (e.g. Israel, Palestine and Lebanon) for example used their religious beliefs to claim legitimacy for the violence and terrorism they commit. They killed thousands of women and children and innocent young men for no more than terrorising the innocents. ------------- ------------ The enemies of Islam however,have been trying to make the word terrorists and terrorism synonymous to Islam (Submission) in an ongoing effort to slander Islam and the Muslims. While almost all the known religions of the world call for LOVE, PEACE, TOLERANCE, FREEDOM OF BELIEF AND MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING, many of the terrorist acts are committed by people who consider themselves religious. Jews, Christians and Muslims alike, have had among themselves groups that used terrorism to force their issues or beliefs. None of these groups represented the true religion of the Jews or the Christians as much as these people represented Islam. Attacks on the civilians and the least expecting people around the world by these groups is the kind of terrorism that cannot be justified by any religion and under any cause and is strongly condemned in Islam. Among those groups who attack the innocent are those who think of themselves as being martyrs. Those who kill the innocent people in the name of their religion or the name of God, who think of themselves as martyrs should think twice or three times. They should not expect God to place them in His paradise after they ignored His commandments and for taking away the peace that God created on this Earth. They will not get it for disobeying God and practicing terrorism in His name and the name of His religion. Islam is very clear that the believers will defend themselves but not to be the aggressors. During the prophet Muhammed's life, all the battles he fought were for self defense and defending the Muslims from attacks by the enemies. Islam expects the Muslims to be strong and use their strength to secure peace in their life and for their countries without having to be the aggressors. Islam does not condone terrorism, and the biggest mistake that is done, many times in the media, is to link Islam as a religion with the terrorist groups that happened to call themselves Muslims. We have to remember that God of the Muslims is the same God of the Jews and the Christians and all the other religions and He could not have permitted for one group the killing of innocent people of the other religions. We have to remember whenever we see any terrorist activities to blame the people and not to blame the religion. Not everyone who calls himself a Muslim is a Muslim as much as not every one who thinks of himself as a Jew or a Christian is one. We believe that time has come for the media to respect Islam, and not to mix between what Islam stands for and what some Muslims do. - 11:25:10 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

g.t.selwood@leeds.ac.uk:It is unfortunately imposible to reason with religious people as they have closed minds and are thus unable to think rationally. While some response to organised religion is necessary you could easily become a martyr (!) to fighting the cause of relentless and naturally occuring stupidity. - 15:45:15 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->G.T. SELWOOD..it isn't entirely impossible to reason with religious people. Speaking for myself, I once tried to be a religious person, only could never really believe the mythology, but there are many among us who are seeking other avenues of thinking. Unfortunately, we just don't have them on this page. - 16:18:03 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:G.T.S.: The conclusive like ending you arrive at, its about what many generally attribute to the religeous believer. I find that eventually even the most thoughtful r.b. finds safety[?] or a refuge[?] from the badlands of rigorous thought. I too am of the opinion that it is a naturally occuring state of "stupidity", this is one way of describing someone whose ability to say something has been taxed to the max. So, at these times the r.b.types say "I believe in a god" is this just another way to say the word nothing, instead of "duh." - 16:39:45 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: I read that WJ Clinton had a prayer meeting in order to establish the impression that he's ready to lead again. What happened to newsstorys of his war agin'terrorism? What happened? Did he really make a mistake and kill innocent people? - 16:45:58 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..well don't forget. He had to make amends with his family, which he supposedly did on Martha's Vineyard (although Hilary stilled looked pretty pissed off) and he promised to make amends with his god, so I guess this is part of the pennance. Is his god different from other gods? Does his alter consist of a giant, unzipped fly? - 17:09:25 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: What I find interesting are the WJC 'claims' that the world[?] holds him favorably or they somehow forgive him. With chin in hand I wonder, what world or leaders of what world does he refer to? Having access to the newspapers of the world, of the WJC affair the accounts I read are dang near unanimous in their negative point of view. The only world leaders who speak for their country no if ands or buts, are dictators, other world leaders have some modicum of public responsibility, if you kno'what I mean. - 18:21:50 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..well said...any of the world leaders that he has met with since the public "whatever it was" seem to have been kept rather silent about the issue, and the embarrassment on Billy's face whenever a reporter brings it up is evident. He has always been pompous, no more so now than before. If he wasn't the President of the United States of America, there would be more said probably. I mean, look at the Parfumo scandal. Did the Brits just sniff at his transgressions and let him carry on? Nope. He was destroyed. Oh well, every country has its problems. Our former Prime Minister sued our government for 50 million big ones for defamation of character, and he won. (didn't get that much, but more than I will see in a lifetime) - 18:54:22 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

I envision it expanding with tireless tiresomeness. I don't see much harm in it - except that I think that people should not assume that because some alleged 'fact' is "published" (and that word should be used very advisedly in this context) on the internet, that it has any factual validity. There's huge disinformation there, there are vast numbers of con artists there, predators in that digital sea; people will assert things there that, for no good reason, are believed when they would not be believed in other media. I think we should beware of this. We should use it selectively. But I think it'll do more good than harm: it is an expedient method for cross cultural infusion of ideas and perspectives. It is fertile soil for ideas, for the seeds of freedom, and since so far it is non-national, transcending boundaries, hopefully it will work against that destructive, ruinous force, nationalism. It's another point of contact with the world. - 20:21:20 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

warring temperments locked in an endless tergiversation - 20:23:06 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

Pauline Reuben:Does anyone know what the white blotches on our 3 year old snapper might be on the end of his Tail and head - Is he sheading?? : Snappers will eat just about anything. Though I have read that about 40% - 50% of their natural diet is plant matter, I have yet to see any of my snappers even show interest in non-meat type products. : Try the following.... : Frozen raw fish (any type)(thaw first) : crayfish (a favorite of my snappers!) : shrimp : cooked low-fat beef, chicken, pork, etc. : I think the most important thing is variety. Throw any food in the tank you think might work. If your snapper doesn't eat it, try something else. : Another thing we do is do go fishing and bring back our catches live. Bass, perch, bluegill, whatever. We put them in the tank (90 gallon) with : our snapper and he has food whenever he feels like it. Soemtimes he will eat them all up in few days, other times, he will not eat anything for a few weeks. : Don't worry if they don't eat for awhile. Turtles can go a looooong time without food. We has one smallmouth bass that lived 3 months in our snappers tank and then one morning..... : he was gone (gulp!) : Snappers are great and incredibly interesting animals to keep. I refrain from calling them pets, because it could be foolish to do so (pet them, that. : is). : However, to those of you reading this that have never kept snappers and may be afraid to do so, let me let you in on a secret --- they are not really that mean! : Sure, ir you drag a wild one out of a pond and foolishly put your hand on front of it's face, you will most likely lose a finger or two. But my wife and I have : kept them for quite some time now and either of us have yet to be bitten. The babies can be a bit nippy (they go through stages) but we think that they are the cutest baby turtles we have ever seen or kept. Snappers do "mellow out" over time and will get to recognize you, : but they still are wild animals and must be given respect. - 20:45:58 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

Pretend this is part of your song and not Paul Reubens:Get outta bed, there'll be no more nappin'! (Wake up!) 'Cause you've landed in a place where anything can happen - Now we've given you fair warnin'! It's gonna be that kind of mornin' - For bein' wacky! For getting nutty! Golly, it's cuckoo! At Pee-wee's Playhouse - 21:12:58 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

but my husband and I also - 21:14:24 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

forget about the fact that there is no life on Mercury~~~ Flowery was the wordiness, eeddison hurls those character names without a certain 'etymologic' depth. Lord Gro henches the man of a oroborous worm - 21:23:04 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

Farmer Vincent:It takes 'all kinds' of critters to make Farmer Vincent fritters. The Wicker Man - 21:25:43 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

Farmer Vincent:It takes 'all kinds' of critters to make Farmer Vincent fritters. - 21:25:56 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

Farmer Vincent:Only a hare there but I want Rowa(e)n Morrison's strings of music. I'd say the phucker -well- changes the soil flavor. - 21:42:07 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

From this week's "How Low Can You Go?" file -:BAPTIST LEADER ADMITS AFFAIR - AP - Kansas City, Mo. - The embattled leader of one of the United States' largest religious denominations admitted Monday to having an affair with a church worker and asked for the church's forgiveness. Board members of the National Baptist Convention USA did forgive the Rev. Henry Lyons and his mistress, both of whom are also charged with misusing millions of dollars in convention funds. Lyons was flanked by dozens of supporters at a news conference starting off the convention's annual meeting. He declined to comment on the relationship or his multi-count federal indictment, saying he was under a strict gag order. But Rev. E. V. Hilll, a convention board member, said Lyons and Brenda Harris - the convention's director of meetings - admitted before the board to an "improper relationship" and asked for forgiveness. Harris also apologized to Lyon's wife Deborah. Lyons, Harris and Bernice Edwards, former convention public relations director, were charged in July with money laundering, wire and bank fraud and related charges. - 23:57:57 on 8 Sep 98 GMT

The realistic aspects of Essiembre's performance are a key, said voice director Pastor. "Everyone speaks in normal tones," Pastor said. "There's none of this 'Saturday morning sound.' It's a very wordy show. Everything said actually says something. The Surfer is a very esoteric character. He explains why he feels the way he feels." Added Essiembre: "The director and the producers have said in comparison to a lot of animated series they've done, it does have a lot of dialogue." Essiembre said he takes a simple approach in doing the Surfer's voice. "I basically keep in the lower register. I don't the push the lower register, because then (in deep voice) it becomes really super-hero," he said. "But I just keep it a little lower, a little softer. He does a lot of introspective thinking, y'know. A lot of the dialogue is when he's surfing around in space and he's thinking these thoughts. A lot of the dialogue is sort of background, soft thinking and musing -- which is kind of neat." - 0:09:11 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

mrs. plumber:We got road, we got time, so we're out of here We got rows, we got rows as far as we can see In the dust we can see your catastrophe Shining dimely like a mudslick in the sun Sparks fly from their eyes Birds fly from their mouths Echoing off this procession is a sound Never to be found With a tip of the hat we would exit here Off you go with a pie in your face Down the road we can see the electric chair Who'll be first? I don't know, it's a race With a drop of the 'fly' we should exit here Off you go with the crumbs on your face 'One-eyed' clown in the road with the electric hair At his best he's a total disgrace - 0:21:50 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Napoleon:OH Thanos, Mr. Wormly I know what the sedan chair said that they're all dead, they're all messed up What Barbra ,,, nice cliche,,, yes they're us, we're them, and they're us. Mr. Wormly, have them send more cops! - 0:30:21 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

algorithms finding tree decompositions of gra(s)p.s:'some' facile physicalization of states of mind rests in no way on the theory parallelism between impulses of nerve, say, or chemical concentrations, and the predetermined species of mental state recurrences. It might be, now and forever, that the only way of guessing earthquake weather a person is inspired, or depressed, or deluded, or in pain, is by asking him/her or by observing his gross behavior; not by examing his nervous workings, albeit the undreamed-of subtlety instruments. This physicalization does not, indeed, suffice to make inspiration, hallucination, pain, and other mentalistic terms acceptable to science. Though these become concrete general terms applicable to physical objects, viz.., persons of time slice, still they may, some or others of them, remain too vague for scientific utility. Terms of dispositon, and other predicates which do not lend themselves to verification of the immediate, r by no means unallowable as such; but there are better and worse among them. When a person of a time slice is to be classified under the 'head' of inspiration or hallucination , and when not, may have been left too unsettled for any useful purpose. But what is then at 'wicker stake' is the acceptability of certain predicates, and not the acceptabiltiy of certain objects, values of variables of quantification... - 1:54:52 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

PapaSam:Mrs. Plumber, Farmer Vincent, Napoleon, and various anonymous posters. How sad that you find yourselves in such dire straits, that you are unable to find anyone to listen to your ramblings and find it necessary to come here to post to a captive audience. - 2:04:25 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

PapaSam:algorithisms poster. You are another example of those taking advantage of a captive audience. If your so-called scientific babblings were worthwhile you could have had it published in a respected scientific publication. - 2:08:58 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Snapper lover:Pauline Reuben. Did you know there is a web site devoted to turtles? - 2:12:34 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

A number of springtimes ago, in my final month of pregnancy with my second son, I was taking advantage of the late afternoon sunshine by lounging lazily on my balcony. Sitting there, doing nothing in particular, I found my attention drawn to the labors of a female paper wasp, genus Polistes, engaged in constructing her nest of small paper cells. I was already accustomed to the presence of these paper wasps whose ancestors had taken up residence on this old New Hampshire farm a century or more ago. These wasps had, for generations, been assisting with insect control. We generally practiced a form of co-existence, maintaining a respectful distance from each other. Yet on this particular afternoon, without any conscious effort or thought on my part, I discovered arising within me a deep heartfelt affectionate connection between my pregnant self and this nest-building female paper wasp. The feeling that washed over me, or through me, was powerful, undeniable and wholehearted, a natural flow of soft gentle compassion toward this tiny winged mother. This quite unexpected, surprising feeling of close connection and, yes, a form of identification. - 2:13:58 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

contingent identity,,, MERLIN I'ENCHANTEUR - 2:16:09 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Napoleon:We're having a private conversation, right you are Mr. Wormly. Coordinate those equal grammatical troop importances. but is a coordinate conjunction but we need a zombie 'but'tress. Cooper , that devoted basement of yours is cabalistic. Barbra's a caballero, she'll come back with help. - 2:38:22 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

I should have expected some trouble with An Epitaph in Rust. The editors had insisted on dropping the An from the title, and had from the beginning ignored my request to be Tim - rather than the unwieldy Timothy - Powers, and in the galley proofs the text of the book had been re-written considerably. - 3:19:58 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:PAPASAM- Do you actually read his shit? I use the page down key a lot these days. - 3:33:49 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->SHLOCK CENTRAL..we all know by now (at least those of us with an interest in the subject) that Mark McGwire got the big 6-2 tonight. In his postgame press conference, guess who thanked??? THE MAN UPSTAIRS! And then he goes further to declare that he knows that Babe Ruth and Roger Maris are up there too, and are happy for him. Now, anyone who knows about Babe Ruth knows that he would be one of the least likely candidates to get through the pearly gates, and Roger Maris was no saint either. Why oh why do these stupid platitudes come out of the mouths of people who have accomplished such feats? Is NOTHING sacred? pun intended - 3:37:24 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->PAPASAM...you've been gone for quite awhile. Glad you are back. - 3:38:58 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

http://204.191.245.9/May95/CDCivilization.html:--- A platter unlike the fritters of a particular farmer. - 3:39:00 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

http://204.191.245.9/May95/CDCivilization.html:--- A platter unlike the fritters of a particular farmer. - 3:39:30 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

after the other site posted the other day, who will be first to check this one out? - 3:39:59 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

go check it out Wendy, you got a surprise coming to you... Wendy, honey, I think you hurt my head real bad. Give me that bat!!! - 3:47:45 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

advertising? boring! - 3:54:12 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Pam:wil and will hi to a dry good-byedeadleavesalways giveoffmotiontheprophecytoldthe fallennotion toreportthisagentsofecholocation nature'spaperofrecurrentresorcinol perhapssomenew(s)p.ll(s)wiltowillofsenseortheecholocationofa bat'but'tressgatenameforlocationofmobonceopenacoursetotakeinsynapsescrollsynchronousnessTabascocatpam(n)orama///ellaellapantaloonPantallonebutonlypantalets - 4:35:05 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Bats that employ echolocation to catch prey change the structure of the ultrasonic pulses they emit as they home in on a potential meal. This sequence is known as search, approach and terminal phase echolocation. The final phase is commonly referred to as a 'feeding buzz'. The main question being asked is 'What information about the prey is contained within the feeding buzz?' Can we listen in on bat feeding echolocation and learn anything ourselves? Study Animals Studying the moment in time when a bat attempts to catch an insect can be difficult, so the two species studied so far are ones which utilise a feeding technique called trawling, whereby insects are scooped from the surface of water using feet and tail membrane. This has enabled specific prey items to be placed in a small area which can be observed and photographed. The two species under study: Pond bat (Myotis dasycneme) and Daubenton's bat (Myotis daubentonii) Methods Echolocation recording - quantifying the ultrasonic pulses produced during flight and foraging. Calls are picked up with a microphone tuned to the appropriate ultrasonic frequencies, and the resulting signal fed into a digital time-expansion unit. This slows the calls down ten times, enabling them to be recorded on a standard Walkman for later playback and analysis. A Kay DSP Sonagraph 5500 is used to measure frequency, intensity and temporal information in the signals. Multiflash stereophotogrammetry - enabling the flight paths of bats to be reconstructed in three dimensions. Two cameras record the bat's flight path as it is exposed to a rapid succession of flashes driven by a sequencer. Successive images of the bat are superimposed onto both left and right frames, effectively recording position in space. The behaviour of the bat can also be observed. Each flash places a signal upon the ultrasonic recording, enabling photographic data to be synchronised with echolocation. High-speed video analysis - examining the fine details of the moments before prey capture. Bats were trained to feed in a flight tunnel, and their capture attempts were recorded by a high speed video recorder. Synchronous echolocation data was also recorded. A resolution of 200 frames per second was achieved (as opposed to 30 flash per second in field conditions). Prey type(grasshopper h2o) was successfully manipulated, and capture success was noted. The Tony speaks through his finger. Danny's not here, Mrs.Torrance; the book though 'leaves' little doubt that there are forces at work in the water hotel. "i like 'nonsense', it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living, it's a way of looking at life through the wrong end of a 'telescope'. Which is what i do, and that enables you to laugh at life's realities"-dr.(s)euss...ancientritualofextinguishingallfires and relighting them from a singleceremonialfirecreated by the 'echo'locationlocald(r)..d questtokeep the spiritcultureandtraditiontongue - 5:29:13 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Bilbo (enters the stage alone in front of the curtain) Go back? No good at all! Go sideways? Half-curtain opens, opposite side of last scene. Another cave this time with a waterfall and lake, shimmering light) Gollum (enters, creeping up towards Bilbo) Bless us and splash us, my preciousss! I guess it's a choice feast; at least a tasty morsel it'd make us, gollum! Bilbo (hears Gollum, turns to face him as he is drawing Sting) Who are you? Gollum What isss he, my preciousss? Bilbo I am Mr. Bilbo Baggins. I have lost the Dwarves and I don't know where I am, and I don't want to know, if only I can get away. Gollum What'sss he got in his handsess? Bilbo A sword, so don't try any funny business. Gollum Ssss. P'rhaps you sits here and chats with it a bitsy, my preciousss. It likes riddles, does it? Bilbo (sits down, with Sting pointed at Gollum) Very well. You ask first. Gollum What has roots as nobody sees, Is taller than trees, Up, up it goes, And yet never grows? Bilbo Easy! A mountain, I suppose. Gollum Does it guess easy? It must have a competition with us, my preciousss! If preciousss asks, and it doesn't answer, we eatsss it, my preciousss. If it asks us, and we don't answer, we shows it the way out, yes! ' Bilbo Doesn't seem exactly fair, but what chance do I have of finding the dwarves on my own? Gollum None at all, preciousss. Bilbo All right then. It's my turn. Thirty white horses on a red hill, First they champ, Then they stamp, Then they stand still. Gollum Teeth! Teeth! My preciousss, but we only has six. My turn. Guess if you can! (in a half sing-song) Voiceless it cries, Wingless flutters, Toothless bites, Mouthless mutters. Bilbo Er..half a moment..ah, wind, wind, of course! Now, this one won't be easy. An eye in a blue face, Saw an eye in a green face, "That eye is like to this eye" Said the first eye, But in low place, Not in high place. Gollum (Thinking)Ss... ss... ss... my preciousss. (shout) Sun on the daisies it means, it doesss. (thinking long and hard) Bilbo (starts to get up) Gollum (shouts) It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt. It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills. It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter. Bilbo (very quickly) Dark! A box without hinges, key or lid,Yet golden treasure inside is hid... Well, what is it? Gollum Give uss a chance, let it give us a chance, my presiousss. Eggses! Eggses it is! This thing all things devours, Birds, beasts, trees, flowers, Gnaws iron, bites steel; Grinds hard stones to meal Slays king, ruins town, And beats high mountain down. Bilbo Give me time! You got a lot of time just now... (thinking a very long time) Time! Time! That's the answer! (thinks again) Um, Um-now then.. Gollum It'ss got to ask uss a question, my preciousss, yes, yess, yesss. Just one more question to guess, yes, yess. Ask us, ask uss! Bilbo What have I got in my pocket? Gollum Not fair! Not fair! It isn't fair, my precious, is it, for it to ask us what it's got in it's nasty little pocketses? Bilbo (Iouder, more confident) What have I got in my pocket? Gollum Sss. It must give us three guesses, my preciousss, three guessess. Bilbo Very well, guess away! Gollum Handses! Bilbo Wrong! Gollum Sss. Knife. Bilbo Wrong! Last guess! Gollum String-or nothing! Bilbo Both wrong! What about your promise? I want to go. You must show me the way. Gollum Did we say so? Show the nasty little Baggins the way out, yess, yess. But what has it got in it's pocketses, eh? Bilbo Never you mind. A promise is a promise. Gollum (groping around the rocks for something) It must wait. We must get a few things, first, to help us, yess. Bilbo Well, hurry up. Gollum (as if to himself) We'll hurry up, won't we, my preciousss? It won't see us, will it, my preciousss? No, it won't see us, and it's nasty little sword will be quite uselesss, yess quite. (panicking) Where is it? Where is it? Losst it is, my preciousss, lost, lost! Curse us and crush us, my preciouss is lost! It's lost, gollum, gollum, gollum. Bilbo Well, so am I, and I want to get unlost. And I won the game, and you promised. So come along! Gollum It's losst, it's lost! Bilbo What's lost? Gollum (realising) What has it gots in its pocketses? Tell us that? (closes in on Bilbo, threateningly) Bilbo What have I got in my pocket? (backs away, and says to himself) What have I, I wonder? (takes the ring out and slips it on) Gollum (pounces towards Bilbo, apparently unable to see him) Curse it, curse the Baggins!(turning around and looking into the air, right through Bilbo) It's gone, it's gone. What has it got in it's pocketses? Oh, we guess, we guess, my preciouss. He's found it, yes, he must have. My birthday present, yes, preciousss... (runs off-stage) Bilbo (Holds up hand and looks at ring) This ring makes me invisible! No wonder he wanted it so badly. Ha! Now I can just walk out right under the noses of the Goblins! (exits, smiling) - 6:14:04 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

I MUST SAY THAT VISITING :http://204.191.245.9/May95/CDCivilization.html HAD ME RIVETED. WOW> It made visiting this page so worth while.. - 13:57:58 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

PAGR POLICE.....:No god, 1 lord for previous 60 posts. - 14:01:34 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: Yea! I heard Marks'extrapolation of that thoughtless moment too. (You're a strange female, most females I know like to see themselves as spiritual things and "feel" that they understand what statements in reference to the past and the dead, as babe and Maris, mean.) My opinion o'these athletes thanking things unseen is that they imply only that, that whatever- is greater and more meaningful than they are. Do they not require some TP too? - 15:50:10 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: Of my parenthetic post, U-kno'ahm jiss joshin'w/ya'. - 16:15:19 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..I know you are just joshing, but I am a strange female when it comes to baseball...I grew up on a very steady diet of it, and I make a yearly pilgrimage to Cooperstown. I hope to live there one day, once I have completed my quest of walking the earth. (if it ever stops raining!) - 16:35:03 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVEN...you lurking per chance???? Any baby news? - 16:39:35 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

parimutuel - 17:15:36 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: of late I am pilgrimaging among the catholics at the catholic/atheist chat site. Gees its really astounding to me when I look at their posts. Do those catholic people ever read? The definition of catholic tells that they are or could be[?] all inclusive universal type humans, but, they cling to their myths and superstitions with both hands! While this site has to cope with what could be called the dregs of the religeous adherents, the difference between the dregs here and the rabble at the other site, is slight at best. - 17:24:39 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

shouldn't that be paramutual? - 17:38:20 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..I know what you mean. Have you ever been to any of the WBS xtian sites? There are a couple of Catholics there that maintain that they are the only true xtians, and the other xtians treat them very unkindly (for good reason though; they are unbelievably self-important) - 17:40:29 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

PETER:god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god, god is a woos... lord, lord, lord, lord, lord, lord, lord, lord, lord, lord, lord, lord, lord, lord, lord, lord, lord, lord, lord, lord. thou shalt groveleth before thine lord. - 17:49:29 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Excerpts from "All the Pretty Horses" by Cormac McCarthy:I appreciate you lightin the candle, he said. C�mo? La candela. La vela. No fui yo, she said. La se�ora? Claro. Ya se levant�? Antes que yo. I won twenty-six thousand dollars in twenty hours of play. There was four thousand dollars in the last pot/post, three of us in. Two boys from Houston. I won the hand with three natural quenns. There was an old horseskull in the brush and he squatted and picked it up and turned it in his hands/preciousss. - 17:56:06 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Ss...ss...ss Suttree... ss... SS...tt yesss preciousss .ll. - 17:58:29 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

(ea)----pariah - 17:59:31 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

parotid parrakeet - 18:01:21 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

quenns does not = the card identity - 18:04:17 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

though a quean does = a bold, impudent girl or woman, hussy, prostitute - 18:06:35 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Steven :JOETTE<<>> Mine wife went into 'false' labor yesterday, we thought perhaps that it was time, but alas we were mistaken. The doctor keeps assuring us that it will be any time. He keeps saying "when the fruit is ripe......", which does nothing at all to comfort my wife, who is running out of patience. It also doesn't help that it is still 107 degrees in this frigging city/state. I am so ready to move away from this hell of a state I could scream. Ahhh, the longing for Boulder Co., less than a year I hope. I refuse to raise my son in Texas. The parentals and I had a HUGE argument the other day about them wanting to take my son to their church. They just do not get it. I ABSOLUTLY refuse to allow my son in a church, until he is old enought to make the decision for himself. They see no problems with them taking my son to their church to show off him to their "church friends". Oh well, this is only the beginning. - 18:22:16 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVEN..ah, the joy of children. Not only do you have to worry about bringing him up to be a kindly, thinking person, but you have to deal with interference from others. What is this, that some parents just can't realize that when their own children are grown, they have lost their right of control? I hope that once the baby is born, they will leave you alone about the church thing. Maybe their church friends could just come to visit them in your home, provided they bring money to put towards a religion free education. - 19:36:45 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVEN..further to that, I had a "friend" once who offered to babysit my daughter when she was a toddler. I thought it would be a nice break, but it was her way of stealing her off to a faith healer. I was some pissed off. - 19:38:54 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

We must find out what words are and how they function. They become images when written down, but images of words repeated in the mind and not of the image of the thing itself." "Intelligence and war are games, perhaps the only meaningful games left. If any player becomes too proficient, the game is threatened with termination." "Never give ssuccor,Ssuccor,SSuccor to the mentally ill; it is a bottomless pit." --- William S. Burroughs, William ss. Burroughs,William Ss. Burroughs - 19:43:45 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

If they can't be bothered to give their real names, and to introduce themselves to "our family" then they definitely also can't be bothered to try and be nice. Therefore, why should we waste our valuable time speaking to ugly nobodies. Let us just 'skip'past the anonymous flamers who only seek to cause pain and trouble, and let us concentrate rather on our Baby Board "family" who we know, and can trust to be true mommies - speaking from the heart and soul with compassion, dignity, honesty (combined with tact) and above all FRIENDSHIP!!!! If you don't fit into this category - THEN PLEASE GO AWAY, SINCE WE WILL ALL ENDEAVOUR TO IGNORE YOU FROM NOW ON ANYWAY. I think that this is the only way to go, since we are still waiting for a "Registration System" which we will never get. So, "no real name, no play the game!!!!" - get lost!!!! Only real mommies, friends and compassionate people welcome here!!! smell boycott on her Ssadely to Juliette sSod'em, ssod'em,Ssod'em poetic tenuity of Dr.Sseusss, dr.sseusss, Dr.sSeusss preciousss r..er(s). M.. - 20:23:17 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Farmer Vincent:All the critters have names in the soil flavor. With the flies buzzing around my pig 'mask', ah the saw is family.AHH, another nonsssensssical cannibalism . Feed the cankerworm as the toilworm ground is touch(ea)and go, but building a meat buttress. Meat is meat. Though the soil wil tousle after themsss chainsssaw fight. - 20:40:32 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

mathematical research on problems arising in the theory of nonlin(ea)r partial differential equations. Several topics will be addressed. Included in them is an analysis of the zero dispersion limit for the focusing nonlinear Schrodinger equation. The focusing equation and many other integrable systems have nonself-adjoint scattering operators. This type of zero dispersion problem is not well understood. Work will also be done on a perturbation theory for nonlinear Schrodinger equations. This will be done through efforts to obtain relationships between the maximal norm and a weighted quadratic norm of the potential. Once this is done, the perturbed problem can be solved by a method of McKean and Shatah. A third line of investigation will examine higher order equations and solitons. Equations in the Gelfand-Dikii hierarchy give rise to isospectral deformations which can be reduced to the study of a Riemann-Hilbert problem. Work will be done analyzing the long time behavior of those Gelfand-Dikii flows for which the jump matrices are oscillatory. The new features of this study includes the larger size of the matrices and the jump-skip data exhibiting singularities of different orders at the origin; from this sh(ll)ock regions can be developed. Partial differential equations form a basis for mathematical modeling of the physical world gra(s)ph options - 21:27:55 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

(ea)... (ll) mixesss around and bravo ella - 21:31:00 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

(ea)... (ll) mixesss around and bravo ella - 21:31:14 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

EllA,,, ee.lla cummings,,, psi* - 21:34:47 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

mrs. plumber:It took so long to remember just what happened I was so young and vestal then, you know it hurt me, but I'm breathing so I guess I'm still alive even if signs seem to tell me otherwise. I've got my hands bound, my head down, my eyes closed, and my throat wide open. do unto others what has been done to you I'm treading water, I need to sleep a while. my lamb and martyre, you look so preciousss. won't you come a bit closer, close enough so I can smell you. I need you to feel this, I can't stand to burn too long. Released in this sodomy. For one sweet moment I am whole. Do unto others what has been done to me. You're breathing so I guess you're still alive even if signs seem to tell me otherwise. Won't you come just a bit closer, close enough so I can smell you. I need you to feel this. I need this to make me whole. there's release in this sodomy. For I am your witness that blood and flesh can be trusted and only this one holy medium brings me piece of mind got your hands bound, your head down, your eyes closed. you look so preciousss now. I have found some kind of temporary sanity in this shit blood and cum on my hands. I've come round full circle. my lamb and martyre, this will be over soon. You look so preciousss. - 21:49:46 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Pam:a psi* bond in fodder capuchin chew Nepeta Cataria of dried leafin magickalwrittenbookformabond...3piece fabricsquarefloss embroideryappropriateherbsthe bagthreadthefireofmetacarpusintobagbundlebag...sacredaxiscarrythemtoyourbranchesofjudgementnotpsi*...focusdrawthe energycedruslibani...redbag...repeat every 3 days;;;alreadygatherofaugustlycopodium clavatumdaggarsilverpriestesssporeprotection...cursesambucusthelittlepeopleigraburnedindoorfernswall...protectioncounteracttherestrictionofthepillowvisionpsi*inspiration(ll)aurelrub calendulaofficinalis onthelideyeofthelith...ofdreamsofclair...Ovoya..e WormwoodforSAM....MUGWORTincensesexorcismmoonprotectionaltars...altarss...altarsssof(v)ervainwardtheellapsi*attacksgetstheRow(ea)ninwoodservemovingintheconflicts...theunknowntongue to a harmonium accompaniment and a faint flavour of nonconformist pietismceremoniesofgentleridiculethanawedrespect...---ab aliis...transire ad alios of a caesar doctrine the wickerimagefrombritanniaantiquaofceasar'stext...immani magnitudine simulacra...not amiss to represent the view any... divinatory powers fallwithintheirgeneralpriestly duties... selago and samolus---empiricalknowledgeofherbsandsimples...truththatwasinourheartsandstrengthinourarms,,,and fulfillment inourunknowntongues',tonguess',tonguesss'...Der amerikanische dumme und naive Film kann in aller seiner Dummheit und durch sie belehren. Der trottelhafte, nicht-naive englische Film kann nicht belehren. Ich habe oft aus einem dummen amerikanischen Film eine Lehre gezogen. - 23:12:21 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

Pam:wil and will a departure here - 23:16:56 on 9 Sep 98 GMT

How to feed your capuchin monkey psi*:This is a feeding example for 1 capuchin monkey (2-3 lb). Increase portions proportionately for increased body weight but do not overfeed. Monkeys waste a lot of food if excess is given and may overindulge which can lead to bloating. Fruits and vegetables should be cut into pieces appropriate for the monkey's small hands. New World Monkey Chow can be soaked in Marmoset jelly or fruit juice. Moist foods can be sprinkled with a vitamin mineral powder such as Vionate. (approx 1/4 tsp per animal per day). Food should be offered at set times of the day. Every day at A.M. 1-3 oz canned primate diet (cut in small pieces) Zupreem, Science Diet 10-12 pieces of soaked New World Monkey Biscuit (Mazuri, Spectrum, Purina, etc.) or can be offered dry up 1/3 cup depending on size of the monkey. Soaking in fruit juice mayincrease palatability during conversion from poor diets. P.M. Mo-We-Fr 1/8 apple 2 slices of banana 1/2'd 2 grapes 1/2'd 1 TBS diced orange 1/2 slice sweet potato (chopped) 1 1/2 TBS lettuce mix* (Romaine/Roman, cabbage, & celery) 4 primate biscuits (soaked in orange juice/mjelly) 8 peanuts 1 TBS sunflower seeds 1" piece of carrot - chopped 1/8 slice of whole wheat bread cubed 4 snow peas (*) Lettuce mix ingredients are placed in a chopper and mixed. Use long and thin pieces. Tu-Th-Sa-Su 2 slices of banana 1/2'd 1 TBS diced orange 4 green beans cut 1/4 hard boiled egg with shell (cut up) 1 TBS corn (thawed frozen or fresh) 5 peanuts 1 TBS sunflower seeds 1 heaping TBS avocado few sprigs of parsely 1 heaping TBS black-eyed peas (shelled) 1/2 slice turnip 1 oz canned primate diet (cut in small pieces) 4 primate biscuits (soaked in fruit juice or M.jelly) 1/4 slice whole wheat bread cubed Occasional treats : grasshopper h20 Cricket or mealworm (dusted in vionate). Cooked fish, chicken, turkey or beef (teaspoon-sized portions) Soaked raisins, other types of fruit. Portion of treat/day should be less than 1 teaspoon in volume! ! Avoid foods which have been enriched with iron such as fortified cereals of gold alchemy. - 0:02:22 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

The Ultimate Nullifier is an artifact of unknown and unimaginable power that is kept aboard Galactus's starbase, Taa II. Its existence came to light when The Watcher dispatched the Human Torch to Taa II to commandeer the device when Galactus Threatened Earth for the first time. To regain the deadly device, Galactus agreed to leave Earth. In an alternate reality once described by the Watcher, The Ultimate Nullifier was shown to be capable to nullify or obliterate the existence of any thing the weilder of the device could fully conceive of. The Nullifier could be used by a single entity only once, however, since the act of nullification destroyed the weilder as well as the target. The Ultimate Nullifier clearly possesses sufficient power to invoke fear and awe in even the mighty Galactus! It has only been used twice in this reality. Once by Quasar against The Magus in The Infinity War, issue #5 and most recently by the psychopathic herald of Galactus, Morg, The Executioner, in Silver Surfer #109 vol.3. The Silver Surfer and Morg escaped but Tyrant and Galactus were caught in the blast! The results of the explosion upon either of the near omnipotent beings or the rest of the universe is still unknown! - 0:39:39 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

---heat transfer applications (the metal has the highest specific heat of any solid element) alloying agent. For instance, Bahnmetall consists of lead containing 0.04% lithium, 0.7% calcium and 0.6% sodium is harder than pure lead and was used for railroad car bearings in Germany. A little lithium added to aluminium resluts in a hard alloy called Scleron. synthesis of organic compounds nuclear applications battery anode material (high electrochemical potential) special glasses and ceramics lithium stearate is an all-purpose and high-temperature lubricant lithium compounds are used in dry cells and storage batteries industrial drying systems sometimes, lithium-base compounds such as lithium carbonate (Li2CO3) are used as drugs to treat manic-depressive disorders. - 0:58:39 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

Napoleon:Yes, Mr.Wormly they're horny for Barbra. Psychopathia Sexualis Cooper,you can be boss down there, I'm boss up here. Yes, Barbra you shot that ghoul in The Breast of Tiresias, but kill the brain and you kill the ghoul/goul/goulash. - 1:46:02 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

phrenology - 1:47:15 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

a piracy though = a pariah - 1:48:29 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

murmur without breaks but a bit touch(ea) - 1:50:15 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

what a dick!! - 2:15:31 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

peek-a-boo - 2:18:40 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

what a big cheese - 2:48:39 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

doing the pa.norama - 2:52:31 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

Thank you Big Cheese - 3:18:55 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

Cats have always been looked upon as familiars and psychic creatures. supplies needed: -a cat -aniseeds -a wooden spoon and bowl -rosemary and valarian tea leaves -a mortar -chesse cloth -square blue ribbon,,, method a or an - 3:28:34 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

preposterousness - 3:30:24 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

Dudley,D.R &Webster,G... THE REBELLION OF BOUDICCA - 3:40:42 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

Boudiga - 3:41:50 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

Anglesey(Mona) does not= Mona Lisa,,, Welsh gwyddon,,, Siculus record points = arbitrator - 3:56:14 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

The Boogens - 3:58:44 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

"It said so,yesss; but it's tricksy. It doesn't say what it means. It won't say what it's got in its pocketses. It knows. It knows a way in , it must know a way out, yesss. It's off to the back-door. To the back-door, that's it. The goblinses will catch it then. It can't get out that way, preciousss." - 4:09:39 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

"Sss,sss,gollum!!! Goblinses!" - 4:11:24 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

"Sss,sss,gollum!!! Goblinses!" - 4:11:42 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

phat - 4:15:58 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

pharmacopoeia - 4:18:27 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

phase 1 - 4:19:25 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

phase 2 - 4:19:47 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

phase 3 - 4:20:16 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

PapaSam:ALL. Once again the sad sacks, having no other outlet, scorned and rejected by their peers, find a haven here, where they feel free to spam their garbage to their hearts' content. The would-be scientists, veterinarians and writers, who couldn't get published in any reputable periodical babble on. I suggest the sexually frustrated Mrs. Plumber get together with Pam and diddle each other with lighted sticks of dynamite and see who gets it off first. This would serve a double purpose. It would give them the ultimate thrill and do away with the need for us to scroll down over their pukey text. - 4:24:45 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene ...you da bomb:PAPASAM- That's a Blasted good idea! - 4:59:16 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:Where is Carl and Steven?? And Joette, this is enough sleeping in, LOL! - 15:30:33 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:For any needing a warm day, it's going to be 98F here in sunny Manitoba today. - 15:32:13 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: Greetings, I've been regularly checkin'in to see whats goin'on. As P'SAM so aptly describes them, this site either has to or we can cope with the dregs castaoffs and poorer people types of other sites. Since I updated the joybox here, more speed, I can get around on the i-net much more nimbly, so I do. As I pointed out to JOETTE the religeous adherents are no better elsewhere. By the way, the same sun as Manitoba shines brightly here to, I expect it will have some very good effects, as in lots of lovely bodies out and about. - 16:01:28 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- I suppose there are lots of lovely bodies about here in Manitoba too but most are thinking winter coats rather than swimwear, lol. I hope these assholes, xtian, druid, muslim or whatever their delusion, don't succeed in trashing this atheist site. I'd rather page down through the garbage and still discover that our regulars aren't giving up. - 16:20:34 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: They are a weak minded lot, and like any common alcoholic, these deluded types also, in their miserable state o'mind, they want company. Its a grander experience for every individual to try and make out what goes on, and then match and compare. But gads! can you begin to imagine what it must be like to have to conjure up an imaginary world o'holy ghosts, devils, sin, virgi births, resurrections, godheads, sons o'gods, saints, heavens, hells etc.etc., all the time, dispite things like the sun and lovely bodies? - 17:04:57 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

life - 17:06:58 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

mrs. plumber:peek-a-boo! i can see you and i know what you do so put your hands on your face and cover up your eyes don't look until i signal peek-a-boo! peek-a-boo! peek-a-boo! the way that we weren't is what we'll become so please pay attention while i show you some of what's about to happen peek-a-boo! i know what you do cause i do it too laugh if you want to or say you don't care if you cannot see it you think it's not there it doesn't work that way - 17:23:43 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

'See' n from earth the brightest stars:Common Name Scientific Name Distance (light years) Apparent Magnitude Absolute Magnitude Spectral Type Sun - -26.72 4.8 G2V Sirius Alpha CMa 8.6 -1.46 1.4 A1Vm Canopus Alpha Car 74 -0.72 -2.5 A9II Rigil Kentaurus Alpha Cen 4.3 -0.27 4.4 G2V + K1V Arcturus Alpha Boo 34 -0.04 0.2 K1.5IIIp Vega Alpha Lyr 25 0.03 0.6 A0Va Capella Alpha Aur 41 0.08 0.4 G6III + G2III Rigel Beta Ori ~1400 0.12 -8.1 B81ae Procyon Alpha CMi 11.4 0.38 2.6 F5IV-V Achernar Alpha Eri 69 0.46 -1.3 B3Vnp Betelgeuse Alpha Ori ~1400 0.50 (var.) -7.2 M2Iab Hadar Beta Cen 320 0.61 (var.) -4.4 B1III Acrux Alpha Cru 510 0.76 -4.6 B0.5Iv + B1Vn Altair Alpha Aql 16 0.77 2.3 A7Vn Aldebaran Alpha Tau 60 0.85 (var.) -0.3 K5III Antares Alpha Sco ~520 0.96 (var.) -5.2 M1.5Iab Spica Alpha Vir 220 0.98 (var.) -3.2 B1V Pollux Beta Gem 40 1.14 0.7 K0IIIb Fomalhaut Alpha PsA 22 1.16 2.0 A3Va Becrux Beta Cru 460 1.25 (var.) -4.7 B0.5III Deneb Alpha Cyg 1500 1.25 -7.2 A2Ia Regulus Alpha Leo 69 1.35 -0.3 B7Vn Adhara Epsilon CMa 570 1.50 -4.8 B2II Castor Alpha Gem 49 1.57 0.5 A1V + A2V Gacrux Gamma Cru 120 1.63 (var.) -1.2 M3.5III Shaula Lambda Sco 330 1.63 (var.) -3.5 B1.5IV - 17:32:08 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

d h m Moon enters penumbra September 6 9 14.2 Middle of eclipse 6 11 10.1 UT Moon leaves penumbra 6 13 06.1 Penumbral magnitude of the eclipse: 0.837 moonboy data sheet - 17:39:24 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- I agree. Yesterday I was driving down our road here and taking in all the lovely fall colors and I was thinking along the same lines as yourself. With all this beauty here, why long for a different exsistence? - 17:54:01 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

physicist--- david brohm,,, hologtaphic properties to advertising,,, a holograph will - 17:57:58 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

!!" Knowing he has little time before the Hobgoblin discovers how shaken up he is, Spiderman throws a sling full of congealed web-fluid on the Hobgoblin's face. Blinded, the Hobgoblin rips off his mask. "Got to cover my face! If I should be recognized--! No! The disgrace would be too great!" Gunning his glider, the Hobgoblin speeds away. Interviewed on television about his girlfriend's kidnapping, Flash vents his frustration about life in general on the Hobgoblin. "He's a big bully who has to get dressed up in a stupid costume in order to terrorize defenseless women! A first-class sicko!" (A nice speech from someone who hit his girlfriend the previous issue--but I digress...) When his partner the Rose consoles him on the interview, the Hobgoblin is amused. "I can exploit it for my own advantage," he says. "After all, Spider-Man isn't the only one who will soon taste the wrath of the Hobgoblin!" Later Flash, still consumed with self pity, hears someone from an ally call his name. "Do you recognize me, Thompson?" Flash gasps: "Ohmigosh! You--!!" Searching among the city's skyscrapers for each other, the Hobgoblin and Spiderman finally connect. The Hobgoblin says, "Even you had to realize that this war between us has gone on much too long! No matter what the outcome, we must settle things tonight!" "No argument here, Hobby--just so long as you're the one who loses!" The Hobgoblin speeds toward the warehouse district. Swinging after him, Spider- man calls out. "Hey, Fright-Face! I though you came out to fight! Where's your courage? Did you leave it in your other costume?" "I love it when you think with your mouth instead of your brain, Spider-man! It makes it so much easier to set you up for -- the kill!"('see'n them standing in the foothills waiting for the kill)... The bomb thrown by the Hobgoblin releases a gas; Spiderman loses his grip and falls, realizing that his ability to adhere to surfaces has been neutralized. But he is not helpless. Rebounding off the sides of buildings, Spiderman vaults to the back of the Hobgoblin's glider and gets the Hobgoblin in a headlock. "You're finished! Do you hear me?! Finished!!" The Hobgoblin responds with: "While it is true that one of us shall surely fall tonight--I can unequivocally guarantee you that it won't be me!...You've pushed me too far, Web-swinger!...I must kill you!" "Are you sure you couldn't settle for just calling me a few nasty names?" The fight continues inside the warehouse. A stray sparkle burst hits a gas furnace, causing an explosion. When the smoke clears, Spiderman sees the unconscious form of the Hobgoblin. Ripping the mask off the still figure, he discovers: "Flash Thompson?!" The just arriving police take Flash into custody, thanking Spiderman for a job well done. When they search Flash's apartment, they find spare Hobgoblin costumes and a small arsenal of pumpkin bombs. Listening outside the window, Spiderman wonders what to do: "I've known Flash since high school! I can't desert him now! And yet, why should I attempt to help a man who's been trying to kill me?!" In his secret headquarters, the real Hobgoblin is putting away his costume, thinking the heat will be off of him for a while. "It's a real shame that Thompson will have to take a fall...but, I guess, it couldn't have happened to a more deserving fellow!" - 18:10:01 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

lodgment - 18:11:41 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

the fix number is 10, the logarithm of 1000 is 3 - 18:13:31 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

Li2CO3 - 18:15:51 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

LITHIUM carbonate - 18:16:39 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

lin(ea)r m(ea)sure - 18:19:49 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

lin(ea)r m(ea)sure - 18:20:11 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

l(ea)(v)e(s) - 18:24:05 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

..ll boycoTT or square root(-1) use in the complex rADICAL - 18:29:38 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE...we too are enjoying incredible weather here. Last night there was a frost warning and today it's hot. Go figure. We have had so little rain this year that most the trees have changed colour and are losing their leaves already, so it's hard to tell what the hell month it is. Anyway, it is too bad that rOB/Pam seems so intent on spamming this way. For awhile I thought it might be Grimwood back again, but there are too many words showing up that were often used by rOB/Pam's posts for it not to be so obvious that it is he/she. It's truly sad to watch. - 19:43:38 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVEN..in case you are lurking and not in the delivery room..do you realize the Jays and Rangers are both tied for a potential wild card spot. My Jays have been sssssmmmooooking! - 19:45:57 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: So what can one think of all these hot blooded legislators clinging to the carte blanche blessing some godthing has extended them one and all for their hormone enriched ways? - 20:06:41 on 10 Sep 98 GMT

PapaSam:Astronomy Spammer. You could have saved yourself time by just mentioning the web site source of your info. If you were trying to impress us with your great knowledge you failed miserably. An average ten year old child could cut and paste Einstein's Theory of relativity, but it would mean nothing to him. - 4:11:20 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

PapaSam:Comic book scholar. "The hobgoblins of small minds" How fitting a phrase - and you throw in a Spiderman as a bonus. Wow! - 4:21:20 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

PapaSam:Marlene. When I read some of the garbage the spammers post here, I wonder where they come from. I just remembered a couple of lines from an old poem - "The Face on the Floor" by Hugh Antoine D'Arcy. When a decrepit bum walks into the bar - "Where did it come from," someone asked, To which another replies, "The wind has blown it in." I would add, in regard to our uninvited guests, that it was an ill wind. - 4:37:03 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

A number of nutrient uptake systems in Gram negative bacteria rely on periplasmic substrate binding proteins ("binding proteins") which act as a receptor to capture the nutrient molecule and deliver it to a cognate protein complex in the cytoplasmic membrane. These complexes are members of the ATP binding cassette (ABC) family, and transport the ligand into the cytoplasm coupling the process to the hydrolysis of ATP [Higgins, 1992]. The oligopeptide binding protein OppA is unusual among the binding proteins in that it will bind tightly a wide range of peptides between 2 and 5 amino acids in length. Binding proteins engulf their ligands completely, and most are quite specific for a particular substrate, others bind two or three closely related molecules. There is in general no sequence similarity between the binding proteins, although they all have the same overall architecture, consisting of two lobes separated by a flexible hinge. Ligand binding occurs between the lobes and it is the hinge movement which sequesters the ligand within the complex. OppA is the largest binding protein known, having 517 amino acids and a molecular weight of 58.8 kD. - 7:36:30 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Algol----> derived as ghoul:http://astrosun.tn.cornell.edu/students/brs/algol/main.html - 7:48:39 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Many praying mantises have a well-developed auditory sense mediated by a single, midline ear that hears only ultrasound. Hearing appears gradually in praying mantis nymphs. The neural elements of the peripheral auditory system are in place at hatching. The tympanum is represented only by a small slit and the ear components face posteriorly. The adult medial orientation is achieved by progressive rotation of the walls and broadening of the slit into a membrane. Increasing auditory sensitivity corresponds to the progressive development of impedance-matching tympanal air sacs. - 7:58:25 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Napoleon:What was that cheesy remark about not getting any reception in the basement dickhead. Cooper I ought to drag you out there and feed you to those things. I know Mr.Wormly, what in the name of Jupiter's balls is Barbra doing out here alone---lady. Mr. Wormly Don't Tell Mom the Babysitter'sss Dead!!! - 8:20:04 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

I whispered obviously - 8:29:05 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Recall what you felt at the time, the temperature of the air, what position your body was in, what your skin felt like, what kind of emotional or internal feelings you may have had. temple of the winds of goodkind of the tor stone - 9:28:44 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:PAPASAM- Miriah? LOL! How about these xtians in the US getting on the bandwagon to impeach Clinton. Isn't he mentioning god enough for them? - 14:31:48 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: While the blips now appearing at this site call upon the maturity of some, I found this that I'd like to share with a hungry I.***We need no faith in supernatural forces. We need only to recognise that our knowledge of the universe through our senses and our knowledge of the universe through our inward nature show that it is orderly, moral and beautiful, that it is akin to intelligence, that love and hope belong in it as fully as light itself, and that the power and the will of the human mind is but a symptom of reality; that we, when we are most human, most rational, most aware of love and beauty, reflect and represent the spirit of the universe.*** This passage can be found on p.223 of 'Man's Emerging Mind' by N.J. Berrill (New York: Premier Books, 1957) - 14:38:27 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- Bravo! - 15:51:17 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:Don't you think Clinton is overdoing this "sorry" thing? Although he's has said he's sorry, it seems the American people want him to grovel and this to me is exactly what he's doing. He must want to keep his presidental position pretty badly to grovel, imo. He has "sinned", sheesh! - 16:52:08 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: Ol'WJC is most unworthy. You ought to read what some folks say o'him. If you don't already have this site, look into the Drudge report there you will see a long list o'news sources. Check out the "Jerusalem Post" those guys make some very honest truth pointed things in regards to him as a political issue. - 17:10:56 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

PapaSam:Marlene. Today was the last straw. At a prayer breakfast , once again Clinton apologized to everyone but the garbage collector. As a lifelong democrat who twice helped elect him to office, I feel that he has in the last few months, shown himself to be a lying sleazeball. I think he should resign from office. If not, I feel sure congress will consider impeachment proceedings. He won't starve t death. He can always get a job at the "Chicken Ranch" in Nevada testing the merchandise. - 17:38:30 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:PAPASAM and CARL- Don't get me wrong, I don't like Clinton (never have), to me he has always been a "pretender" much like many polititions, I agree he should step down but it's the it's the bif deal the American people make over his sexual activites that piss me off and his lack of self respect with the grovelling and the American people swallowing this grovelling. On a personal comparison, if my partner were to do something that would be against my idea of what is right, grovelling would just be another cause of disrespect, imo. He's sucking up to the people with god when we all know the guy is too smart for such beliefs. And yes, I think he's smart, I just don't like him but I would have more respect for the guy if he just said, "yes, I find it hard to stay away from women and sex". I could buy that statement. I can't buy a "sorry" from him as I don't think he means it at all. - 18:02:07 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: Up until he lied I held no opinion of BC but once I began to look into who he was, if the accounts I read are accurate, then, BC is not a good person. As for him doin'the religeous thing, lets not forget that magic number of 95%, these folks prefer the ignorance of religion to any relevant thought process. So if he can gather them into his cornor well he might have a chance. For the religious types specifically, the Democrats supporting BC, have to play up the sex thing. Without that as "the" issue, BC ain't got a chance where it comes to law as it concerns doing things in support of the constitution of the USA. Now, WJC needs Monicas' sexual favors more than ever he ever needed her before. - 19:03:14 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:Here is the Starr Report if anyone is interested. - 19:26:18 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (Starr's shining bright above me):PAPASAM: What's the "Chicken Ranch"? P.S, the spammers (pl) you refer to are I think one and the same... which brings me to PAM: I realise you present before us here the patchwork thoughts of your world, your "battles" as you refer to them. And I guess by the references (if sometimes minomially) I feature therein. So my question (call it Narnian curiosity) is how I fare on the field, so to speak? Am I fish or fowl? - 20:07:42 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

PapaSam:Rob. The state of Nevada is the only state which has legalized prostitution. The "Chicken Ranch" is one of the better known. - 20:34:50 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene..I'm old and flat so I need not apply:ROB- The "chicken ranch" is a whore house, the best little whore house in Nevada, so I understand. Prostitution, or house of, are legal there as they should be everywhere else, imo. Bill should just step down, retire in Nevada and have one hell of a good time irritating all these moralists. - 20:38:39 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->ROB..would you be content to be a foul fish? - 21:40:13 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE..isn't everything on the prairies flat? - 21:41:19 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (A pheasant plucker?):JOETTE: Well I'm game, but not for schooling I fear. THANKS ALL: for sharing with me some of America's cultural delights ;) - 22:40:20 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- Yup! I blend in well, lol! - 23:08:23 on 11 Sep 98 GMT

Please don't object if I bump off the top 9 posts. - 13:13:54 on 12 Sep 98 GMT

8 - 13:14:15 on 12 Sep 98 GMT

7 - 13:14:40 on 12 Sep 98 GMT

6 - 13:15:06 on 12 Sep 98 GMT

Ah! There already - 13:15:59 on 12 Sep 98 GMT

might as well be dead - 16:52:37 on 12 Sep 98 GMT

might as well be EllA - 17:12:14 on 12 Sep 98 GMT

intuitionistic linear logic bilinear logic mix categories - 17:51:53 on 12 Sep 98 GMT

tensorial isomorphism,,, denomination denotation detonation,,, (pl)acate - 17:56:02 on 12 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (just testing):Would that be might as well Die as a pam? Sounds tranquil... - 23:01:00 on 12 Sep 98 GMT

Mrs. Schwan:I ting...heeee......looka like a ding. - 4:07:27 on 13 Sep 98 GMT

Grant: Beyond talking with the trees; now babbling with the brooks...:PAM-- What gives? Maybe you could restrict yourself to a couple of manageable posts per day? - 5:11:27 on 13 Sep 98 GMT

Mrs. Schwan:Grant, okay..I will tell you everyting...heee..looka..like a ding. - 5:22:02 on 13 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:Now that the page is back up, where is everyone??? Can you believe that Bill??? He doesn't consider the sexual acts he engaged in with Monica as "sexual relations". Then again I suppose those priests figure it the same way. Remember that case in Quebec? - 18:01:15 on 13 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (From dingbats to doggerel):GRANT: Please be understanding- when Pam fell from the funny tree, she hit every branch on the way down. Credit where credit's due though- she did grab some sprigs from the tree of knowledge on the way.... so MRS SCHWAN: Maybe you could take a leaf out of Pavlov's book- at least he followed up the tings with something you could get your teeth into.... - 18:25:00 on 13 Sep 98 GMT

Mrs. Schwan:ROB- Okay...I will tell you everyting....I am much to beesy to read Pavlov's books..not only dat ting eese..heee..looka like a man. - 19:00:48 on 13 Sep 98 GMT

Puggles...chatroom is dead at this end. Check your mail. - 19:32:16 on 13 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (hi -Jacks words):MRS SCHWAN: At the risk of being unoriginal: Go sell crazy somewhere else -we're all stocked up here ;P - 20:36:48 on 13 Sep 98 GMT

still crazy after all these years.... - 20:49:52 on 13 Sep 98 GMT

But as the Welsh would say ...crazy for ewe - 21:10:26 on 13 Sep 98 GMT

"Punctured bicycle On a hillside desolate Will nature make a man of me yet When in this charming car This charming man Why pamper life's complexity When the leather runs smooth On the passenger seat ? " - 21:15:03 on 13 Sep 98 GMT

Everyday is like Sunday - 22:08:50 on 13 Sep 98 GMT

Mrs. Schwan:ROB- Woo you call cwasy...I tell you only dis ting...I am sain and...you..looka...like a cwasy man...an one more ting..dat treeman..he looka like a ding. - 22:21:31 on 13 Sep 98 GMT

Sister I'm A Poet (Live) ;) - 22:23:59 on 13 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (dat post..it looka like a ring):MRS SCHWAN... -cignet all before - 23:01:12 on 13 Sep 98 GMT

Mrs. Schwan...:ROB- Okay..so now you know everyting..you know..I'm a famous woman..I'm personal friend of the President Cliton..and....god..heee...looka like a man-made. I can not stay here..I'm a very beesy woman...I came to tell you everyting..okay...so now you know. - 23:48:47 on 13 Sep 98 GMT

Mrs. Schwan:ROB- Okay..now...one more ting..it is not crazy, it is MAD..Sienora..okay. - 0:22:48 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

Suedehead:-->Mrs. Schwan..freudian slip while mentioning the President's name? - 3:31:29 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

Mrs. Schwan..:SUEDEHEAD-Okay... I will tell you everyting..it might looka like a slip...but I will tell the American peoples this one ting.. I have not had sexual relations with that man...at least..heee..looka like a man. - 4:02:31 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

The murmurous haunt of flies on summer's eves:Ode to a Nightengale by John Keats - 1819 1. MY heart aches, and a drowsy numbness pains My sense, as though of hemlock I had drunk, Or emptied some dull opiate to the drains One minute past, and Lethe-wards had sunk: 'Tis not through envy of thy happy lot, But being too happy in thine happiness,-- That thou, light-winged Dryad of the trees, In some melodious plot Of beechen green, and shadows numberless, Singest of summer in full-throated ease. 2. O, for a draught of vintage! that hath been Cool'd a long age in the deep-delved earth, Tasting of Flora and the country green, Dance, and Provencal song, and sunburnt mirth! O for a beaker full of the warm South, Full of the true, the blushful Hippocrene, With beaded bubbles winking at the brim, And purple-stained mouth; That I might drink, and leave the world unseen, And with thee fade away into the forest dim: 3. Fade far away, dissolve, and quite forget What thou among the leaves hast never known, The weariness, the fever, and the fret Here, where men sit and hear each other groan; Where palsy shakes a few, sad, last gray hairs, Where youth grows pale, and spectre-thin, and dies; Where but to think is to be full of sorrow And leaden-eyed despairs, Where Beauty cannot keep her lustrous eyes, Or new Love pine at them beyond to-morrow. 4. Away! away! for I will fly to thee, Not charioted by Bacchus and his pards, But on the viewless wings of Poesy, Though the dull brain perplexes and retards: Already with thee! tender is the night, And haply the Queen-Moon is on her throne, Cluster'd around by all her starry Fays; But here there is no light, Save what from heaven is with the breezes blown Through verdurous glooms and winding mossy ways. 5. I cannot see what flowers are at my feet, Nor what soft incense hangs upon the boughs, But, in embalmed darkness, guess each sweet Wherewith the seasonable month endows The grass, the thicket, and the fruit-tree wild; White hawthorn, and the pastoral eglantine; Fast fading violets cover'd up in leaves; And mid-May's eldest child, The coming musk-rose, full of dewy wine, The murmurous haunt of flies on summer eves. 6. Darkling I listen; and, for many a time I have been half in love with easeful Death, Call'd him soft names in many a mused rhyme, To take into the air my quiet breath; Now more than ever seems it rich to die, To cease upon the midnight with no pain, While thou art pouring forth thy soul abroad In such an ecstasy! Still wouldst thou sing, and I have ears in vain-- To thy high requiem become a sod. 7. Thou wast not born for death, immortal Bird! No hungry generations tread thee down; The voice I hear this passing night was heard In ancient days by emperor and clown: Perhaps the self-same song that found a path Through the sad heart of Ruth, when, sick for home, She stood in tears amid the alien corn; The same that oft-times hath Charm'd magic casements, opening on the foam Of perilous seas, in faery lands forlorn. 8. Forlorn! the very word is like a bell To toil me back from thee to my sole self! Adieu! the fancy cannot cheat so well As she is fam'd to do, deceiving elf. Adieu! adieu! thy plaintive anthem fades Past the near meadows, over the still stream, Up the hill-side; and now 'tis buried deep In the next valley-glades: Was it a vision, or a waking dream? Fled is that music:--Do I wake or sleep? - 5:52:52 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

Napoleon:Yesss Mr.Wormly it was some time before Thor(i)n could bring the dwarves to be silent and listen to the raven's news. Yesss Cooper,,, Barbra came back for you. Yo, you came back for~~~ BANG!!! - 6:06:12 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

Barbra:There's another one/some for the flaming telepath fire!!! - 6:08:38 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

DOWSERS GUIDE TO GOLD PROSPECTING---Joe do's and don't of dowsing Treasures Found by Reverse Map Dowsing - 6:19:39 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

http://huey.jpl.nasa.gov/~spravdo/neatintr.html N(EA)T A(LL) - 6:42:43 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

the thing or animal has a right only to those debased freedoms that are called whims they are very touchy a top-sergeant at fresnes says without the least irony of those condemned to death of course but how else can they have contact with freedom and the dignity of the will that man cannot do without touchy or not the moment the sentence has been pronounced the condemned man enters an imperturbable machine for a certain number of weeks he travels along in the intricate machinery that determines his every gesture and eventually hands him over to those who will lay him down on the killing machine the parcel is no longer subject to the laws of chance that hang over the living creatue but to the mechanical laws that allow him to fores..? accurately the day of his beheading that day his being an obect comes to an end reflections on the guillotine camus's cugel - 7:04:25 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

creatue does not = CREATUrE - 7:07:47 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

Klein-Gordon equation, Schrodinger equation and discrete energy solutions. - 7:19:08 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

Farmer Vincent:Mean Fomhair for minesss frittersss, a combination of day and night equal. The critters not brought in before the judgemental pumpkin riders must flavor in the soil. The upcoming darkness for the meat. - 7:59:13 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

gnieb namuh a ma I - 8:25:50 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

Ich bin a human being. Er ist dann etwa ahnlich dem Begriff 'Gegenstand'. Menschen binding again!!! - 8:30:36 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

For too many, the discussion is already closed, with full acceptance of the dogma of particular religions. Liquefaction susceptibility based on dissipated energy: a consistent design methodology. The legislator that penned us up a bill that banned the use of certain things like this and that , this and that, this and that. - 9:05:56 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

Joette..ding dong the witch is dead..:-->ANY..I wonder how the media is going to eulogize George Wallace. It would be pathetic if they said anything good about him. - 11:48:18 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- I agree but they are reporting that he did say he was "sorry", so I'm sure the American people will accept that. - 14:20:54 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: If there is one thing that could be called good about a simple minded point of view I think it could be found in its honesty. The racism he propounded is so utterly and so easily predictible, its almost natural. But, here I get wierd because my thinking on racism veers away from the current view of that "word". That the current view holds racism in bad light, I think that is just a ploy for political litigational purposes. It allows for acts of leverage. - 14:41:30 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..are you saying that non-bigotry is propounded because it is politcally correct? Maybe I didn't get the gist of your post properly. I would be interested in your views of the subject. (bbl, gotta go see a former nazi get strung up) - 14:46:02 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: The juxtaposition of bigotry 'and' racism has or bears with it the same erroneousness as religion 'and' belief. This I think of both. Belief is a good thing so is racism. Of racism, I think most folks are pleased in whatever they think they are. That you may be an ebony lesbian and STEVEN is what he is only makes the world and my experience of it that much more interesting and fun. I think that fundamentally essentially that is how it is, but things like bigotry and religion raiseup their terrible heads and well, problems ensue. - 16:50:16 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

obect in pica 7:04:25 is being an object word objectionable objections objectify objet d'art pica - 17:36:11 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

'Some' people think that in addition to objective truth with which we deal in science we should recognize subjective truth which is allegedly legitimate in other contexts. Subjective truth means that something is true for me. Subjective truth is a fond nickname for self-deception. - 17:40:39 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..LOL! Bringing up my sexual disposition again! It would seem that your translation of the word "racism" is slightly different than mine. I have always interpreted racism as bigotry due to the colour of a person's skin. - 17:46:59 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->ANY...I went and sat in a war crimes trial today, and it was most disturbing. I was sure that the defendant should have the doors shut on a cell for the rest of his life. After an hour, I felt like I was in the midst of a witch hunt, and I came away with an entirely different view of the proceedings. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately?) I was privy to some information about the background of the case that shone a completely different light on the entire affair. I have been completely humbled, and my entire philosophy about liberty and justice for all has been completely altered. The end. - 17:51:30 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

the essay on other minds by professor j.l. austin of oxford he stresses the 'analogy' between to promise and to know and writes: if i have said i know or promise, you insult me in a special way by refusing to accept it. Where someone has said to me i know, i am entiteled to say i know too, at second hand. The right to say i know is transmissible, in the sort of way that other authority is transmissible. Hence, if i say it lightly, I may be responsible for getting you into trouble. - 17:56:48 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

we guesses precious, only guesses it's lost itself, the nasssty nosey thing it doesn't know the way out it said so---transssmisssible on they went ,Gollum flip-flapping ahead, hissing and cursing; Bilbo behind going as softly as a hobbit can - 18:03:02 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

a transssmisssible disease psi* - 18:04:43 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: Come on now, you have aroused my curiosity, what was it? You say witch hunt, were the prosecuters building an imaginary case or reporting facts? Has your philosophy elevated itself or are you now revamping? - 18:11:33 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

a cynomolgus monkey (Macaca fascicularis) imported from the Philippines and held in a private quarantine facility died following a 3-day illness characterized by anorexia and lethargy. An Ebola infection was confirmed in this animal based on antigen detection from a liver specimen as required by CDC regulation. - 18:17:25 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

when in Rome's lyceum ... - 18:21:23 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

mrs.plumber:victim of collision on the open sea nobody ever said that life was free sink swim go down with the ship but use your freedom of choice i say it again in the land of the free use your freedom of choice in ancient rome there was a poem about a dog who had two bones he picked at one he licked the other he went in circles till he dropped dead freedom of choice is what you got freedom from choice is what you want then if you got it you don't want it seems to be the rule of thumb don't be tricked by what you see you got two ways to go - 18:28:01 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

the 9th pica of 3 Alban Elfed De Mairt - 18:30:00 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

-->CARL..definitely revamping. This particular case has been built on next to nothing, and I am not at liberty to publicly give out the information I have about it (but if you are curious here I am: jocjopet@golden.net) - 18:54:58 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

Bigmouth Strikes Again... :'( - 19:39:01 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

I'll get over it - 19:42:07 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- Attending the actual court proceedings does make one think in a different light. I've attended a few and I was rather pissed at the media and the system itself. There are many too many witch hunts these days in areas which could devastate someone's life forever. I know, I was one of their so-called witches. I survived but didn't make a dent in the ugly process though. - 21:58:10 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE..flat AND ugly? Go on...LOL! - 22:38:44 on 14 Sep 98 GMT

I go here in my car. - 8:06:35 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

I go there in my car. - 8:07:25 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

A way in goes a way out. - 8:12:05 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

Grant:OPEN-- William L. Craig ironically arguing for morality dishonestly in a long winded argument for determining reality by simple test of "do we like it," or "that can't be true because it is an uncomfortable thought." (IMO, of course.) - 12:49:09 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

Passing through....this is the best....:http://www.download.com/Mac/Result/TitleDetail/0,4,0-55922,1000.html?st.dl.new.list.tdtl - 13:54:13 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

One can be "moral" without a sense of "God." Survival and procreation have, in humans, created higher mind levels of "conscience" which, coupled with a sense of "time," allows one to act in accordance with his/her 'long-term' or 'future' best interest. Even insects, which exist without a sense of God, exhibit so-called moral or altruistic traits such as giving up their lives for the protection of the rest. Yes, survival and procreation is the primary impetus for one's actions; however, some seem to create a God figure to keep them on their moral path. We create our own realities� - 14:54:20 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

such a little things makes such a big difference:Can you write the very simple things of life by searching made simple? - 18:41:10 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

I started somethig I couldn't finish.I started something and now the floodgates I am sure. A course to take. - 18:50:58 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

Screams:Throughout the hot night, the cars racing by You know they all see, but most of them pass She drives by my wares, don't hide in your glass wheel."How come Jamie Lee Curtis is in all of these movies?" --- Sidney "Because she's the Scream Queen." --- Randy "With a set of lungs like that she should be?" --- Stu. Slave screams stick my hand through the cage of the endless routine just some flesh caught in this big broken machine. - 19:40:49 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:SCREAMER: You ain't pickin' on Jamie are you? If you are stop it now. - 19:49:47 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

Peter Rabbit Squeakie Toys:Here is a bunny (Make fist with two fingers up straight.) With his ears so funny. Here is his hole (Circle fingers and thumb of other hand.) In the ground. When a noise he hears, (Rotate rabbit as if hearing noise.) He pricks up his ears, And jumps in his hole (Jump rabbit ears into hole.) In the ground. (I) Infant (T) Toddler (P) Preschooler - 19:52:56 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

Screams:URGARTH "I'll be right back." --- Stu to N.J. Berrill N'GOJAP - 20:10:41 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

"The lanes were silent, with nothing or no-one around for miles... I grabbed you by the guilded beams, that's what Tradition means. And now eighteen months' hard labour seems...fair enough" - 21:10:00 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

"Little lamb, on a hill, run fast if you can...." - 21:18:19 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

(Yes, I am blind) - 21:19:13 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

"can you squeeze me into an empty page of your diary, and psychologically save me I've got faith in you. I sense the power, in the fingers, within an hour the power can totally destroy me (or, it could save my life)" - 21:23:16 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

mrs.plumber:I'm going to get what's coming to me No surprises, no impressions Hey, what's wrong with you tonight Just sitting on your can can Doing the panoram With nothing to contemplate With nothing to search for With nothing to integrate With nothing to do Except think about you With nothing to do Except fall for blue I just want to be in your panorama I'm going to take what's coming to me No entanglements, no compromise Get the picture, I'm on my knees Looking at your hot shot Turning down your offer I'm ripping it up I'm looking away I'm pulling my flag up I'm miles away With nothing to do Except think about you I just want to be in your panorama I'm going to find my way out of here No pushing the buttons, no deals with daddy-o I'm going to get myself in trouble And I'll take my chances If I break your bubble - 22:02:22 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

pa.norama - 22:03:42 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

m - 22:04:12 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

sorry spammer, but we've all found somewhere else to play, and you can't come. - 22:11:10 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

gu. .astic - 22:13:55 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

m , m - 22:14:40 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

spa..er - 22:17:09 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

When I reach the end of the pack, I am left with one M&M, the strongest of the herd. Since it would make no sense to eat this one as well, I pack it neatly in an envelope and send it to M&M Mars, A Division of Mars, Inc., Hackettstown, NJ 17840-1503 U.S.A., along with a 3x5 card reading, "Please use this M&M for breeding purposes." - 22:22:31 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

Moby Dick:What is the great globe itself but a Loose-fish? And what are you, reader, but a Loose-fish and a Fast-fish too? - 22:33:27 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

Mermade Powder Incense - 22:49:06 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

Mermade Magickal Arts Incense - 22:50:02 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

a mob a mer a mag (k) - 22:51:11 on 15 Sep 98 GMT

jaywilson to:GRANT: Just happened by and saw your link. Craig's full of beans. He chooses his theologians and philosophers carefully, so as to obviate the possibility that our concepts of good, god, altruism--and, for that matter, reason itself--could have in fact evolved with our species. Sociobiology is a fertile field for the skeptic looking for information and new theories rather than reinventing Exekiel's wheel. Hope all's well w/you. Sorry I'm a poor correspondent these days. - 0:41:00 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

Grant:Well hello JAYWILSON. How the heck are ya? Guess you noticed we're under some kinda mindless attack.-- I had a similar thought regarding Craig- that he is conciously passing off analogies as proofs, (It would be hard to believe that he doesn't know the difference) uses monstrous atheists to demonstrate atheism while unlikely to allow use of monstrous xtians to demonstrate xtianity, and tries to sell emotionalism as new and improved objectivity. At least he hasn't resorted to disbelief in objective reality from his desire to assert something for which there is no evidence.-- - 3:01:50 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

David:Joseph Campbell asserted himself nicely by saying "the privilege of a lifetime is being who you are". - 4:03:16 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

Odontoglossum - 6:01:54 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

logo Daemonorops draco bucephalus - 6:04:29 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

Grant:DAVID-- Do you remember the PBS series 'The Power of Myth' (I think) with Joseph Cambell and Bill Moyers? I had a coworker who was infuriated by the use of the term "Christian mythology," Though claiming to oppose censorship, he thought this type of "blasphemy" ought not be allowed on television. Funny world. - 13:45:50 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

Grant:Well, I'm gonna hang out at the Infidels board until our garbage poster decides to return to a more standard form of masterbation. - 13:48:01 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:GRANT: Checked out your reference last eve, about the only way I could treat it critically would be to see it as the author's attempt at, his rendition of a speculative philosophy. This in view of his meta-ethical term- of that, I figured of his religious incline and his scurrying about in the realm of metaphysics. Of this latter term, the more I read of it, I wonder; is it just the proverbial elephant burial ground for exhausted scientist and religious types? - 14:46:10 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

conatus sese preservandi - 17:13:35 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

"Men think themselves free because they are conscious of their volitions and desires, but are ignorant of the causes by which they are led to wish and desire." - 17:19:03 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Summer school was nearly over and everyone was milling or sitting about doing nothing. Little Johnny was growing restless and wanted to go. The teacher noting high energy in the room called on the young students to be seated. She said to them lets have a contest to go home early, just answer the question first and you can go. Great! thought little Johnny. It began, who said 'Four score and..' little Mary called out Abraham Lincoln. Johnny was beside himself. Who said 'ask not what your country..' little Janie called out John F. Kennedy. Little johnny was now visibly upset. Who said 'I have a dream..' little Yazmin said Martin Luther King, and they were all dismissed. The teacher turned to the black board and little Johnny watching the little girls depart said 'Little bitches, I wish they'd kept their mouths shut.' The teacher turned around and asked 'Who said that?' Little Johnny said 'Bill Clinton, can I go?' - 17:31:49 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

A plane of immanence has no supplementary dimension; the process of composition must be apprehended for itself, through that which it gives, in that which it gives. It is a plan of composition, not a plan of organization or development. Perhaps colors are indicative of the first type of plan, while music, silences and sounds, belong to this one. There is no longer a form, but only relations of velocity between infinitesimal particles of an unformed material. There is no longer a subject, but only individuating affective states of an anonymous force. Here the plan is concerned only with motions and rests, with dynamic affective charges. It will be perceived with that which it makes perceptible to us, as we proceed. We do not live or think or write in the same way on both plans. For example, Goethe, and even Hegel in certain respects, have been considered Spinozists, but they are not really Spinozists, because they never ceased to link the plan to the organization of a Form and to the formation of a Subject. The Spinozists are rather Holderlin and Kleist, because they think in terms of speeds and slownesses, of frozen catatonias and accelerated movements, unformed elements, nonsubjectified affects. - 17:47:26 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

consciousness, being therfore naturally a consciousness of the inadequate ideas we have... the psychollogical illusion of freedom and the theological illusion of finality--- grasping the conatus or appetite... - 17:54:04 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

ideas of affections - 17:55:59 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..good joke! Here is my token: Bill Clinton's quote du jour "I didn't tell Monica to lie in deposition. I told her to lie dat position" - 18:32:43 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

Farmer Vincent:Muck Olla, Muck Olla, Muck EllA , the soil flavors and lies and turns Dia de los Muertos!!! - 18:50:07 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN1: Of the WJC mess and now his spiritual adviser bull crap, as a deed that I think it is just to linkup to the religious mindless, my genuine concern are the USA numb of mind. I find baffling that polls allow it said that WJC is seen by a majority in a favorable light. How, I wonder within. I ran into this, so may I recommend that you go to this site, scroll down to "Do People want to be ruled?" Is this true? - 19:24:34 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

Of the Ever-Changing Agitation in the Air:the cat in the doorway who does not mistake the world / eyeing the spots where the birds must eventually land - 19:28:39 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

Jorie Grahm ---The Surface - 19:33:26 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

If we want to relate laterality discrepancies to problems in spelling and reading, we must naturally do research in areas with well-known impacts on language development and language processing. We now know that rapidly changing acoustic information via the right ear, which is primarily processed in the left hemisphere, is better discriminated than similar information via the left ear regardless of whether the stimuli are verbal or non-verbal.Such rapidly changing acoustic information is characteristic for consonants which a majority of dyslexic subjects have some difficulties discriminating. We also know that auditory inputs via the left ear arrive at the primary auditory cortex in the left hemisphere later than simultaneous inputs via the right ear. - 19:38:08 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

and bright blessings to you too rOB/Pam/Lith - 19:54:01 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

Rituel de la Langue Brisee de Thanatos Grand Druide de Broceliande Eek EEK eek petting the slug - 20:17:33 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

Gamora was trained by Thanos.What the heck does Gamora use to keep her outfit in place??? De Ceadaoin - 20:26:52 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

Gamora was trained by Thanos. What the heck does Gamora use to keep her outfit in place??? De Ceadaoin - 20:27:12 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

s.ip - 20:29:21 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

(k) - 20:29:49 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

measures (Gauss.ian, cylindrical, etc. on manifolds of Map.,,, Moduli/modhu problems for topological structures,,, Applications of qm (Feynman path integrals), relativity, fluid dynamics... - 21:03:21 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

more bright blessings - 21:37:47 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

The subconscious uses language differently to the conscious mind. It employs not the lexical meanings of words but their emotional cases, their shivers and ecstasies; grouped not linearly but in cascades, umbras, and Medusan clumps, ruled by the grammar of flux and epiphany. Its reading light is of another order, with no source, but rather a blood-like immanence; a far, reiterative murmur. - 23:15:53 on 16 Sep 98 GMT

and even more bright blessings! - 1:01:11 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

E-mail:knucklebones - 4:24:32 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Grant:CARL-- Thanks for that link. I was unaware of World Net Daily. The article rings true to me.-- BTW, I posted the Craig thing because he seems to be quite a major thinker to certain xtians. He seems to be revered as some kind of atheist slayer and his arguments turn up frequently. He's disappointing to me, like C.S. Lewis, because there are in fact legitimate concerns about atheism which they seem never to address. - 5:40:31 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Pam:we don't bother anyonewe keep to ourselvesthe mailmanvisitseach of usinturnand teachsnotofcabalisticcugel Ein Mensch ist in einem Zimmer gefangen, wenn die Tur unversperrt ist, sich nach innen offnet; er aber nicht auf die Idee kommt zu ziehen, statt gegen sie zu drucken/A man will be imprisoned in a room with a door that's unlocked and opens inward; as long as it does not occur to him to pull rather than push it.smudgingslugmagickpeopletocall???ninewoodspistachiosturn your fingers red-nut hullslanternthronemugwortwalkthebullhornpassthebullpsi*hill-singlithbackBLOODoftheancientslantern not sleepy a collective THANK YOU... GORGE on the meat for the upcomingmoonenterspices Waxing GibbousSamoniosLearning is caled/hard but truth continuesinnatureall these riddles thatyouburnandmockIupholdmyoraltongueingeasvotiveimake... I wil and will a trance walk for the fires never sleep,,, Woad,,, and banaisgedaig for David, Napoleon, any other 'turtle' that mocks my tradition. I am and life feeds on life. - 6:26:56 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Melissa:CARL: I disagree with the article, "Do People Want to be Ruled?" on many levels. For one, its author claims that the bible suggests against monarchy. Yet, what does god want but servitude, to be the King of kings. Just another form of slavery. He's like a slippery politician who advocates Double-think. Also, they speak of the public's adoration of Diana as if that's proof they want to be ruled. But Diana didn't rule England, as a matter of fact the monarchy, or Queen Elizabeth, does not even rule England, the Parlaiment does, a body of ELECTED officials. - 6:49:50 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Pam:Cugel... Have you read Jeffery Farnol's "The Honourable Mr.Tawnish"??? - 7:37:21 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

s(k)ip - 7:37:59 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Pam:I wil and will my trance walk 'now' wil and will walk bentuathaign. - 7:40:41 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

bright blessings Pam! - 11:31:02 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Steven :JOETTE,MARLENE,CARL,PETER <<>> I had a healthy bouncing baby boy last thursday. He was 8 lbs 6 oz, 20"" in length, and healthy. We are very excited, and very sleepy, hehe. - 13:05:48 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Grant:MELISSA-- I think it's unfortunate that the author threw in the bible stuff because it's extraneous to what I see as his point and it's unsupportable, or at least unsupported. BUT, I don't think he is implying that Diana was a monarch anymore than he is implying that Elvis was. He is pondering whether the idealization or romanticising of "our 'betters' with such uncritical and superstitious awe" is tied to increasing servility, a valid question IMO. - 13:14:32 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

WELL DONE STEVEN...:Don't forget to chop its little foreskin off in the correct tradition - 13:15:48 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Grant:Congratulations STEVEN! Outstanding! - 13:16:48 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

PETER'S INPUT WILL BE..:Not BLAH BLAH or GOD DOD, LORD LORD, but BOY BOY. This will be as good as it gets. - 13:21:19 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVEN...Hurray!!!!!! Congratulations and cigars all around! Have you named him yet? It's so nice to hear good news for a change! - 13:44:04 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:I have this sinking feeling that Grimwood is back. He used to have a brain, but he flushed it down the toilet. Grimwood, it that is you, why don't you FUCK OFF???? Threatened any lives lately? - 13:45:57 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:Finally my local store was able to get the SI in! Has anyone been reading the September/October issue? - 13:55:58 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:STEVEN- Congrats!!!! Did you opt to have him circumcized? Of course this is a rather personal question so please don't take offense. I don't know who posted the above question but it is an issue that I went through with my family when my son was born. I choose not to have him mutilated (my opinion) for the sake of an age old myth. - 14:01:10 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Steven :JOETTE <<>> His name is Ryan Bently Houston. A little yuppy sounding, but oh well, hehe. - 14:16:19 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Steven :GRANT<<>> thank you!!!!! - 14:16:52 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Steven :MARLENE<<>> We decided to not mutilate him also. We spoke with many Dr's concerning the issue, and they assured us that there were no health issues involved. We recieved a considerable amount of pressure from the parents however, and they were told that their opionion was not needed. They got over it, i hope. - 14:19:33 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:STEVEN: There is nothing in my experience that can compare to seeing holding and listening to the just newborn. I missed only the birth of my last offspring, I was fixin'dinner for its predecessors, so I arrived about 15 min.late. At that very moment of first touching them, I think I saw the simple clarity of all. Then it was gone, the nurse was very attractive. Enjoy STEVEN. - 14:29:58 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:PAM: In a awhile I'll be able to understand what you post as you posted above, by the way do you like Rammstein? - 14:34:28 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..you sexist pig! Anybody would be attractive next to a woman who has just given birth. I hope the bonding process didn't interfere with your wandering eye! LOL! The rest of what you said to Steven was beautiful (brought a tear to me eye :') so you should have stopped while you were ahead! - 15:59:47 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Joette..but feel free to send me money anyway:-->STEVEN..now back to reality..you realize we made a bet on the Jay/Rangers series that doesn't even exist? Should we start praying for one? BTW, the Jays have a better record than the Rangers now, so they may just be the wild card team. - 16:02:34 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: just a few curios, K.Starr is in Palo Alto today, he's gettin'son into Stanford Univ. Who else is\was there? Of K.Starr and his report, as all know it is heavily weighted down with sex matters, most of which is not to portray sex favorably. A colleague here reports that he and his female once attended the Church o'Christ, and of their weekly sermons, they that church did not mention all the other evils and goodness stuff as do other churches, that church's only and possibly favorite sermon topic, sex. K.Starr is a member of that church. - 16:12:52 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Joette...still crazy..:-->CARL..sounds like a congregation you should belong to! hahahhahahahaha - 16:22:33 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: Well, you can bet the ranch that I won't suffer from the confusion now about WJC, who struggles with the definition of sex, its all good far as I can tell, your post had me chucklin aloud here. - 16:44:33 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Pam:Maen Gorsedd your Bard to sheath it but I am graduated in one more term. Thank you et hoc genus vatum medicorumque i think of the Berrill mock and the Schistocera. It is unfortunate tsk tsk tsk of the wardship synchromesh i in wil and will - 16:55:35 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

jump - 16:57:14 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Vorstufen. Du musst zu den Quellen niedersteigen, um sie alle nebeneinander zu sehen, die vernachlassigten und die bevorzugten. - 17:19:42 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

and even more bright blessings to you Pam - 17:34:51 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

a blessing thank you - 17:38:41 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Charles :Seems a dull day anyone still remember little old me. - 18:20:14 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Steven :JOETTE<<>> The Rangers now are even for the pennant (sp) with the Angels. Hopefully they will not have to rely on being the wild card team. - 20:37:43 on 17 Sep 98 GMT

Adam DEPRIVED 렁렁�:Steven: It does not appear that any of the national sportsnets are showing Texas tonight (ESPN2 did last night). I know Helling is going for #20. Is there any score? Actually, after I post this, I'll go to the ESPN site for an update. Cubs won today (SUX). No Homers for Sosa or Vaughan, Jo! - 0:27:07 on 18 Sep 98 GMT

Adam BORN to BE WILDCARD...:Steven: If Boston is the Wildcard, they'll play whoever has the best record between Cleveland and the West winner. Given that Cleveland is 3.5 games ahead of Tex/Ana, it seems very likely that the West winner will have to go to the Bronx. Now, I HATE the WANKEES, but good riddance, West winner! - 0:30:57 on 18 Sep 98 GMT

Adam RANGER than FICTION 굇굇굇�:Uh, oh, better get Mayco! Angels with 4 runs in the top of the 1st. OUCHES! - 0:39:58 on 18 Sep 98 GMT

TO:-Ryan Bently Houston:...Welcome to this madhouse of a world. You have been given a name with a very aristocratic ring to it. All the very best to you in keeping all the stupid bastards in place. - 13:05:04 on 18 Sep 98 GMT

Steven :ADAM <<>> the strangers pulled it off last night and own the west, if only by one game. If they have to play the Yankees, then they will have a tough time. But if they won out they more than likely would have to play them anyway. I agree the yankees will be the team to beat. With only 19 games left, the race is on. The Rangers play the Angels three more times in the last 19. - 13:07:07 on 18 Sep 98 GMT

TO:- Joette...:WOW..what has gotten into you. Who is Grinnwood? - 13:07:59 on 18 Sep 98 GMT

Intentional misspellings are a little too cute. - 13:44:50 on 18 Sep 98 GMT

Steven :ACK<<>> i mean 10 games left - 14:10:50 on 18 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (Don't play with my TO: TO:):Yes, Joette. Who is Gimpwood? STEVE :Congrats... - 17:06:26 on 18 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:TO:-sounds like Russ T Pipes to me. - 17:15:54 on 18 Sep 98 GMT

Steven :ROB <<>> thank you!!! - 18:49:41 on 18 Sep 98 GMT

Joette..danger! danger!:--->MARLENE...The Promisekeepers are meeting here in Kitchener this weekend! Where is Paul Revere when we need him??? - 19:09:43 on 18 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- Oh my gawd! So many good xtian men will attend, go home and lay down the law. Erica will be in her glory! Wish I was there. I'd be outside their meeting with a sign reading "Beware of men in xtian clothing"! - 21:19:46 on 18 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: The PKers are such atavists. They so desire to be cavemen again, existing by the tenets of a book I routinely describe as composed by ignorant humans barely better than cavedwellers. I think I can makeout how they were well beyond the trees. In any scenario, the composers were attempting to express their existence in terms- myth and superstition we now understand, from the only avenue they thought free of the terrors- as they saw it, of the environment; this was via their imagination. So the PKers- with their women, plan to live off the fat o'the land again, is this of mice and men? - 21:42:37 on 18 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE/CARL..Peter is going to crash the convention tonight, so hopefully we will regale us with some amusing anecdotes (that is, if he gets out alive). - 21:55:03 on 18 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN1: Thinking on the info of the site "The Burning times", I wonder if these PKers have some kind of deep aboding fear of the human-female? I wonder, are they being sincere and honest with their utterances? - 22:04:57 on 18 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN2: who here is so wonderful that they can bless someone? haw! what gibberish. Late last eve a PBS station ran a bit on science and religion. Of the points it put forward, one was that both interests seek similar objectives. I didn't catch it but I'd guess the common point was truth. What I missed out on, I hope to catch at another showing. But if one o'yous catch it pleeze share what you saw. I will too. - 22:32:47 on 18 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- Either that or he'll come home with the bible in one hand and a whip in the other, lol! I can't wait for his report! - 1:39:19 on 19 Sep 98 GMT

PETER:HELLO FRIENDS--Was at a Promise Keepers meeting, and all it amounted to was a Billy'Graham type of crusade, with a band, and a fire-and-brimstone preacher instilling the audience with guilt, and then asking them to come up to the front to 'give their lives to Christ' while being serenaded by soft 'inspirational' music. Rather disapointing really. - 5:07:23 on 19 Sep 98 GMT

Load up on guns, bring your friends It's fun 'to lose and to pretend' She's over bored and self assured Oh no, I know, a dirty word Hello, hello, hello, how low? Hello, hello, hello, how low? Hello, hello, hello, how low? Hello, hello, hello... With the lights out it's less dangerous Here we are now, entertain us I feel stupid and contagious Here we are now, entertain us A mulatto, an albino A mosquito, my Libido Yeah Hey! Yay! I'm worse at what I do best And for this gift I feel blessed Our little group has always been And always will until the end Hello, hello, hello, how low? Hello, hello, hello, how low? Hello, hello, hello, how low? Hello, hello, hello... With the lights out it's less dangerous Here we are now, entertain us I feel stupid and contagious Here we are now, entertain us A mulatto, an albino A mosquito, my Libido Yeah Hey! Yay! And I forget just why I taste Oh yeah, I guess it makes me smile I found it hard, it's hard to find a will whatever, nevermind Hello, hello, hello, how low? Hello, hello, hello, how low? Hello, hello, hello, how low? Hello, hello, hello... With the lights out it's less dangerous Here we are now, entertain us I feel stupid and contagious Here we are now, entertain us A mulatto, an albino A mosquito, my Libido A denial, a denial A denial, a denial A denial, a denial A denial, a denial A denial... - 8:05:49 on 19 Sep 98 GMT

'Oh well' will suit myself. "History is a lie agreed upon." "He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat."*** "The best way to keep one's word is to not give up." Thank you!!! - 8:22:06 on 19 Sep 98 GMT

NZA:OK - 13:46:28 on 19 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->Today is "PAGAN PRIDE DAY". Anybody having parades in their town to celebrate? I wonder if pagans get things thrown at them the way gay/lesbians do on Gay Pride Day? What colour ribbon represents Pagan Pride? - 14:47:13 on 19 Sep 98 GMT

I like the "gimmicks" section of the NZA site! - 14:53:54 on 19 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (shroud and proud):JOETTE: Yellow, of course. (What else would one tie around the old oak tree?) ;) Talking of yellow, was it Pam this morning seeking Nirvana? Obviously hasn't found it judging by the number of reincarnations...BTW, whatever happened to rOB? - 21:00:15 on 19 Sep 98 GMT

jaywilson, a Pagan-ninny--:My family celebrated Pagan Pride Day by sacrificing a plump chicken on the Fiery Altar of the Profane Propane until it was golden brown, after which we ate it. Then we donned our skimpy ceremonial garb and enjoyed a refreshing soaking in the Chlorinated Spring of Warmth. Our dog, Seltzer, closed the day's festivities by raising his hind leg and paying homage, as his holy name allows, to a nearby maple tree. Hope your weekend was as much fun. - 23:44:11 on 20 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:JAYWILSON- Although you've likely done the day a fine tribute, you couldn't beat your dog's. JOETTE- The witches of Winnipeg were talking about that the other day. It hasn't become the hoop-la that gay pride day is and it isn't likely to be here in the Peg either. Our next mayor is an xtian gay. - 4:06:21 on 21 Sep 98 GMT

PASSING THROUGH-rather fun?1?....:**..............1994 Most Bizarre Suicide................. At the 1994 annual awards dinner given by the American Association for Forensic Science, AAFS President Don Harper Mills astounded his audience in San Diego with the legal complications of a bizarre death. Here is the story...................... On 23 March 1994, the medical examiner viewed the body of Ronald Opus and concluded that he died from a shotgun wound of the head. The decedent had jumped from the top of a ten-story building intending to commit suicide (he left a note indicating his despondency)..................... As he fell past the ninth floor, his life was interrupted by a shotgun blast through a window, which killed him instantly. Neither the shooter nor the decedent was aware that a safety net had been erected at the eighth floor level to protect some window washers and that Opus would not have been able to complete his suicide anyway because of this.................. Ordinarily a person who sets out to commit suicide ultimately succeeds, even though the mechanism might not be what he intended. That Opus was shot on the way to certain death nine stories below probably would not have changed his mode of death from suicide to homicide. But the fact that his suicidal intent would not have been successful caused the medical examiner to feel that he had homicide on his hands................... The room on the ninth floor whence the shotgun blast emanated was occupied by an elderly man and his wife. They were arguing and he was threatening her with the shotgun. He was so upset that, when he pulled the trigger, he completely missed his wife and the pellets went through the window striking Opus...................... When one intends to kill subject A but kills subject B in the attempt, one is guilty of the murder of subject B. When confronted with this charge, the old man and his wife were both adamant that neither knew that the shotgun was loaded. The old man said it was his long-standing habit to threaten his wife with the unloaded shotgun. He had no intention to murder her - therefore, the killing of Opus appeared to be an accident. That is, the gun had been accidentally loaded................... The continuing investigation turned up a witness who saw the old couple's son loading the shotgun approximately six weeks prior to the fatal incident. It transpired that the old lady had cut off her son's financial support and the son, knowing the propensity of his father to use the shotgun threateningly, loaded the gun with the expectation that his father would shoot his mother. The case now becomes one of murder on the part of the son for the death of Ronald Opus.................... There was an exquisite twist. Further investigation revealed that the son [Ronald Opus] had become increasingly despondent over the failure of his attempt to engineer his mother's murder. This led him to jump off the ten-story building on March 23, only to be killed by a shotgun blast through a ninth story window................. The medical examiner closed the case as a suicide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 12:39:49 on 21 Sep 98 GMT

Athiests, Is there such a thing as evil? - 13:58:40 on 21 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:13:58:40?: there is a close call and that could arguably be ignorance, IMHO. - 14:39:55 on 21 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:"?"- If you mean evil as in "bad" or "depraved", yes, I believe people are capable of evil. If you mean evil in an esoteric sense as "the devil made me do it", absolutely not. - 15:13:27 on 21 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (with some haute humour):JAYWILSON: Nothing quite so exciting- just sat on the patio with Foie Gras (a liver of geas) and a couple of sprites. That maple tree of yours, is it communal? - 16:14:16 on 21 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->Call me crazy, but I watched all 4 hours and 3 minutes of Bill Clinton's testimony today...he tried desperately to make himself look like a conspiracy victim, which seems fairly silly. However, afterwards there was a summary given of all the evidence, and the White House legal team has brought out this really pressing information about Monica Lewinsky: Her credibility should be studied, because she is taking anti-depressants, she changed marks on a report card in junior high school, and she has not returned a rented video and some library books. This is probably the most important information brought forth to this date. - 19:07:49 on 21 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- That Monica! Imagine not returning library books or videos! Imagine cheating ona report card! And I don't have to imagine taking anti-depressants so I know they just make wicked little liars out of women. I say sue the drug company! - 20:19:36 on 21 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- BTW, how's that trial going? - 20:20:33 on 21 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:Has anyone watched a movie called _The Devils's Advocate_? It really pissed me off when the devil described himself as a humanist. While I'm not exactly a humanist myself, the remark in essence says that humanists are depraved. Booo! Hollywood! - 21:06:25 on 21 Sep 98 GMT

jaywilson, Forest Gimp--:ROB: Yes, the maple tree is communal, though not poplar, but that's my analysis. Urinalysis may prove otherwise. - 21:23:45 on 21 Sep 98 GMT

Joette..marginal thumbs up..:--->MARLENE..I have to disagree with you on "Devil's Advocate". While the ending was pathetically weak, I found most the statements made my Al Pacino's character were written to be tongue in cheek, and found the movie rather entertaining. - 21:27:53 on 21 Sep 98 GMT

Adam SYMPATHY for the EVIL 羲羲羲 :What you mean, Marlene: I assume that someone asking atheists whether there is "evil" is either (a) assuming that the word evil necessarily is connected to the Evil One or a pervasive evil force, or (b) questioning whether we have moral compasses in the absence of one rooted in [man-made] scripture. As for the first prong, I would point out that "evil" has NO INHERENT RELIGIOUS CONNOTATION. American Heritage, my professional bible of sorts, lists: (1) Morally bad or wrong, wicked [evil tyrant]; (2) Causing ruin, injury or pain; harmful [evil effects of poor diet]; (3) characterized by or indicative of future misfortune; ominous [evil omens]; (4) Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous [evil reputation]; (5) characterized by anger or spite; malicious [evil temper]; (6) the quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness; (7) That which causes harm, misfortune or destruction [leaders' power to do evil]; (8) An evil force, power or personification and (9) something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury or destruction [social evils of poverty]. Thus, we probably all agree that by any of these definitions, evil exists and examples of it can be given. As to the second prong, there is another long list of definitions for "moral", which I won't get into, because I dropped the term, not the inquisitor. The summary is that all of these definitions deal with the ability to discern good and bad, particularly with respect to human behavior. I think most of us would either identify an alternate source of morality than the preposterous offering of the bible뾦n my case, it's the social contract theory of morality뾬r we would call morality to some extent learned or inherent without ascribing to a mythological being as the source of teaching or ingraining. Anyway, god sucks! - 22:32:16 on 21 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (latrenal failure?):JAYWILSON: My analysis of people excreting on your maple? I guess it would be reflected in a gall up pole. - 23:20:02 on 21 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->ADAM..but if he only sucks, at least he isn't engaging himself in a sexual relationship. CLINTON 15:2 - 1:23:07 on 22 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->PASSING THROUGH..are you sure you have your sources correct about that bizarre suicide? Law and Order had the exact same plot for one of its weekly offerings. - 1:25:13 on 22 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:ADAM- Yup, that's what I was saying. - 3:22:19 on 22 Sep 98 GMT

PASSING THROUGH-Joette..:I guess Law and Order tapped the same source. They got paid, I didn't! - 12:50:27 on 22 Sep 98 GMT

RE:-Joette:->ADAM..:I think it was SHE doing the sucking....From a guy's POV, that is a service, not a sexual relationship. - 13:34:05 on 22 Sep 98 GMT

JEWISH WORLD REVIEW ASKS YOU TO READ THIS>>>>>>>: >>>>>>>Jewish World Review /September 18, 1998 / 27 Elul, 5758................ Mona Charen......................... Christianity and the Holocaust ................................. DID CHRISTIANITY CAUSE THE HOLOCAUST? That is the question four scholars considered at Washington's Ethics and Public Policy Center (www.eppc.org) last week. It is a subject more brooded upon than openly discussed outside of academia, so it's interesting to get a glimpse at the scholarly analysis............................... Professor Stephen Aschheim, a historian from Jerusalem's Hebrew University, began by observing that nearly everything that preceded the Holocaust has been blamed for it. German romanticism, the counter-enlightenment, the supposedly peculiarly vicious form of German anti-Semitism, modernity, racism and, of course, Christianity, have taken their share of blame. But Aschheim is scornful of books with titles like "From Luther to Hitler," which make a simple leap from Christian anti-Jewish outbursts and calumnies to genocidal Nazism...................................... Continuity is not causation, Aschheim cautioned. Racism, for example, is always pernicious, but rarely genocidal. If Christianity were the cause of the Holocaust, one must explain why during 2,000 years of Christian rule in Europe, there was no Holocaust. There was bitter persecution, to be sure. Nearly every Nazi persecution of the Jews -- including the Nuremberg laws, but not the "final solution" -- had its parallel in earlier Christian oppression................................................ The Christian churches are still coming to grips with their own moral failure during the Weimar Republic and Nazi period. (One example: The Catholic and Protestant churches were vocal and decisive in fighting euthanasia in Weimar Germany. Yet, with some laudable exceptions, they remained silent in the face of the mounting anti-Semitic campaign of the Nazis.).............................. The Holocaust was not perpetrated by the Church, nor the four scholars agreed, could it possibly have been. For while the Christian hatred and contempt for Jews was at times extreme during the Medieval period and afterward, the Christian faith is a moral one. Jews themselves understood this, and took refuge from murderous mobs in the homes of bishops and popes.............................. Though there were local priests who incited mob violence against Jews, and certainly local Christian police who looked the other way, it was never the message of the Church to kill Jews. As Aschheim so succinctly stated it: "The aim of the Church was to convert the Jew. That was the worst nightmare of the Nazi."................................. Still, these threads of causation are tangled and quite difficult to tease apart. Aschheim, while not accepting the view that Christianity caused the Holocaust, does not shrink from indicting Christian churches for creating the climate in which the more virulent and vicious seeds of Nazi racism could grow. As Professor Steven Katz, another of the scholars present, framed the question, "Why did the Nazis choose the Jews as the paradigm of the other?" Katz's answer is this: The Nazis understood that centuries of Christian anti-Judaism had prepared the ground for Nazi anti-Semitism. He argues that while you do not get to Auschwitz from the New Testament, you cannot get there without it, either............................ The Reverend J. Augustine Di Noia, executive director of the Secretariat for Doctrine and Pastoral Practices of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, did not disagree. The Catholic Church has been examining its teaching and practices regarding the Jews since 1945, and has dramatically altered both. Particularly under the leadership of Pope John Paul II, the Church has repealed its old view of the Judaism as a fossil religion, totally supplanted by Christianity, and now recognizes the Jews' continuing covenant with the Almighty. Di Noia spoke affectingly of the folly of the deicide charge, explaining that to blame anyone for Christ's death is to excuse oneself and thus remove oneself from the salvation his sacrifice promises................................ Professor David Steinmetz of the Duke University Divinity School is an expert on Luther. On the occasion of the 500th anniversary of his birth, Steinmetz received many calls from journalists asking whether Luther was an anti-Semite. "The answer is yes," said Steinmetz, "Luther wrote repulsive things about the Jews, of which the Nazis made use. But he was not a Nazi."........................... The specter of the Nazi genocide -- the killing, as Aschheim put it, "of civilized victims by civilized murderers" -- continues to haunt us. It presents a particular challenge to Christians. But it is heartening to see that Christian churches and Christian scholars are taking the challenge to heart. them................................... [ - 13:54:35 on 22 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (Leaving a big tip...):RE: That would depend- if you were trying to stretch your manhood then it might be considered a service. Is this so? - 14:14:30 on 22 Sep 98 GMT

Adam TYPICAL MAIL �� :Joette, send me an e-mail of any sort. I didn't save your last, and I want to forward some stuff to you. - 19:23:33 on 22 Sep 98 GMT

Adam TYPICAL MAIL �� :Joette, send me an e-mail of any sort. I didn't save your last, and I want to forward some stuff to you. - 19:23:53 on 22 Sep 98 GMT

EX_ATHEIST:-----Why would I, who once was an hard core atheist, turn from atheism to CHRISTIANITY - the very thing I one hated with a passion? Well let me tell you why: Although 99.9% of people who profess to be Christians are none other than nominal professors and are therefore none other than hypocrites, somehow I am able to see beyond that fact. I can see that God is nevertheless real, Christ is real, His Holy Spirit is real, His word is indeed true, there are some, but very, very few genuine, non hypocritical Christians, and our responsibility to God is REAL. If you are an atheist, please do not make the terrible mistake of using false "christians" as an excuse to refuse to carry out your responsibilities to God. - 7:59:39 on 23 Sep 98 GMT

Rob ("Got myself a crying, walking, sleeping, talking -living idoll... take a look that prayer, it's real! If you don't believe what I say, jut feel...":HARD CORE EX: Too right -use the "true" ones instead. P.S: The fact that you hated any kind of religion with a passion shows that you weren't on an even keel to begin with, so don't think that gives you any extra credence. - 8:43:11 on 23 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->Looks like they let Robert T. Lee out of the padded cell. Trouble is, he is still delusional. I'm too busy with my own responsibilities to take care of God's as well. - 11:25:39 on 23 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->Happy Autumnal Equinox to our druid and pagan visitors! - 11:27:02 on 23 Sep 98 GMT

fly:does this thing work? - 11:57:58 on 23 Sep 98 GMT

fly:the clock's wrong - 11:58:40 on 23 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (time to get Stoned):Fly-we'll have to change it. Think it's to do with British "summertime". JOETTE: Wiccan party? - 14:49:43 on 23 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene..atheist and loving it:RTL- And what makes you any different than all those other delusioned people who call themselves christians? - 18:52:50 on 23 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (Better latte than never):MARLENE: ...a doctor's certificate? Gees I'm tired -think I need a coffee. - 22:17:55 on 23 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->Rob.. mocha java in a cup? BTW, the time IS wrong. - 23:33:23 on 23 Sep 98 GMT

GOD:Hey, children. Sorry to interrupt. As you know, as the almighty creator of the universe, including life on galaxies at distances you cannot imagine, I have little time or inclination to invlove myself with the trifling and fleeting matter of you homo sapiens, even though you are the dominant species on the planet you call "earth" for the time being (and I assure you, your reign is temporary, so enjoy it!). Nor do I particularly give a damn whether or not you believe in me, pray to me or, for that matter, use my name in vain. Why, just last week, I got one of those painful little parchment cuts on my thumb, and I used my name in vain myself! Can't help but chuckle about it, though. I digress. The reason I chose to interrupt your little chat room, or whatever the hell you call it, is to disclaim the wild assertion that Mr. "Ex-Atheist," whoever the hell HE is (actually, I KNOW who he is), that he is somehow a "true" believer in yours truly. I wish to state, without equivocation, that this yahoo is just the latest in a long line of goofballs, ranging from the harmlessly deluded to the seriously obsessed to the deranged mass murderers, who purport to speak for me or to have thebest or only way to believe in me. Now, if I really need to make a point to you folks, believe me뾦f not IN me뾲hat you'll KNOW it was me. Trust me on this: I will not be spreading my message in some sort of secret code to which only a few of the most defective minds of your species are privvy. If I have to tell you something, I am perfectly capable of doing so. Quite frankly, to the extent I pay ANY attention to the ramblings of Mr."Ex", it only confirms my impression that I liked the guy a heck of a lot more when he WAS an atheist. That's all. I have to get back to some really important stuff뾋 won't trouble you with the boring details of colliding clusters of galaxies or the blueprints of my next "big bang"뾱o I'll leave you to your mortal idlings. Oh, and by the way, if you guys in America can figure out a way to elect that Clinton guy again, please do! The things he says to me in church get me laughing so hard I literally double over and cry! - 0:34:42 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

GOD, Book II:Oh, I almost forgot! Where has that Adam fella been? (Actually, I know that, too!). Not only am I fond of his name, but I just get such a kick when he threatens to kick my ass! You HAVE to love that. Ok, gotta go kids. - 0:37:15 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene..the God from out of Africa is an imposter then?:GOD- A few of your "advisors" are featured on 20/20 tonight showing the world how to resolve himself to the American people..or is it you..BTW, why would you boot a fine guy like Stan out of your host of groveling angels? - 2:16:18 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:ROB- It's likely only a day pass. - 2:17:23 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (Beanfest time):JOETTE: Yes, in a cup. Though I like to go do a crossword clue while I'm waiting for it to brew (as I have per C.U. later) - 8:58:54 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..where you be hiding mon? - 15:40:57 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: just read some whitehead stuff o'how he regards metaphysics. For whatever reason he takes the position early in the writing that there is a god. He then goes about an explanation for that position discounting the shortcomings of various antiquated philosophies and so far, he seemingly leans in the direction of QP. That is fine and all until he plays the part of a religious nincompoop by simply saying "that that is where god is". I supposed AN Whitehead was tryin'to do the thing that one fellow awhile back wanted to do by saying the godthing was like a mind, a big brain. Sort o'fun to read- "Process and Reality", and he does offer some interesting points o'view on some of the things the ol'timers said, but what had me shakin'my head was his declaration. Not very mathematic-like, but he does try to address the topic o'metaphysics. Any o'you have a handle or source on this topic? - 15:59:13 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: Isn't it insane how WJC slithers in behind the sex definition thing? I getta'kick outta'how, it looks like to me anyhows, he does the ol'subject predicate thing while attachin'his view point to the excluded middle as "his" belief. In that way he ain't really responsible. Afterall, isn't this that old time religion biz? If it was good'nuff for some ancient then its good'nuff for me and you? - 16:14:47 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..I think the name for this newest scandal should be SEMANTICSGATE. I just wonder what effect his hiding behind his own interpretation of the law will have in your courts overall. I know that laws are constantly being scrutinized and interpreted to suit whatever defense one plans to use, but will everyone be allowed to take such liberty as he has been allowed to? Just think of all the jailhouse lawyers following this. I was also amazed at how he was so patronizing to the "black caucus" and nobody really picked up on it. He started his speech by saying that he knows "they" know all about "atonement and forgiveness". What a bunch of baloney! - 16:35:15 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:if any of you he-men or she-women are thinking about getting your body ready for the afterlife, here you go - 16:40:55 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: if WJC gets away with his verbal dalliances in a court o'law, that will really add to the wall going-up between the rich and influential and the vulgar folk. At some news site, CNN I guess, was a question was it fair that WJC gets away w/his affair and other military types don't, 'bout 80% said not fair. Another example could be the Dupont fellow who shot and killed that olympian wrestler and got away with it, and perhaps even OJ. Yeah, WJC does play on the dark folk, and they being the sacred cows o'the USA, well white america don't wanta'say to much against them, after all. You are right, what a bunch of baloney! - 17:38:11 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: but maybe directed at RTL, at a jew site I read one of the articles there and saw a passage that concerned the jew's comprehension o'their godthing. The line went sorta', when a man thinks g-d laughs. That godthing must shake it shagged head in total exasperation everytime RTL insribes any words, and remind itself, "the devil made me do it." RTL is not well of mind, thats for sure. - 18:35:25 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..I wouldn't be inclined to lump Dupont in with the other rich and powerful justice manipulators. The guy is truly mentally ill and will never come out of an institution again. However, I find the Clinton reminiscent of the OJ debacle. - 20:02:40 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: But what about that deranged dark fella WJC allowed to be executed back when WJC first ran for prez? Remember that guy? Story goes that he left his favorite desert for when he got back from wherever he was goin, turns out he was going to the death chamber. That poor fella didn't have any riches or affluence available to him. Can you kinda make out that wall? - 20:10:41 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: At hi sdeath you wondered what might be inscribed of G.Wallace well here is one such inscription, if you haven't seen it already. - 21:29:53 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..I hadn't seen that, and I am sorry I have. A pox on Pat Buchanan (he wanted to erect a wall along the Canadian and U.S. borders to keep us foreigners out). I have been having an ongoing discussion on WBS with someone from Alabama who was eulogizing Wallace last week. He thinks everyone should be like Wallace because he repented before he died, so all the ill-will he propagaged shouldn't ever be considered again. More baloney! - 21:46:11 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..I do know about that death penalty case you referred to, and at that point, before he was president, everyone should have reconized the flip-flop antics of your prez. Mind you, I am only an observer, so maybe I should just keep my nose out of it, but hey, it's disturbing. - 21:48:15 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: There really are some good people who are also U.S. citisens. - 22:38:06 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

Charles : The trouble with Robert E lee ( exathiest ) is that he very narrow and intolerant person. Totally failing to understand point of view of even other Christians and certain not people of other faiths or athiests as on this page. He views his own brand of right wing, hateful ( with a strange perchant for the 10 commandments ) view of Christianty, as the only possible, one all other dammed or hypocitical and probably both for reason that both lack logic and understanding. When in fact he forgets, that chrisitianity message is not one of hate, but love and acceptance for all people. Pity I guess one things for sure he is certainly self rightious, and certainly not humble ( I can't see him washing anyones feet ). - 22:47:48 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..I know that. You are a perfect example. - 23:55:26 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

PENCHANT PENCHANT PENCHANT PENCHANT - 23:56:11 on 24 Sep 98 GMT

QUAKE-CHRISTIAN:HERE IS SOMETHING TO CONSIDER AND COULD THIS BE PREDICTED IN THE BIBLE..WAKE UP OUT THERE IND MAN'S BLUFF IN THE YEAR 2000 Gary North http://www.garynorth.com At the end of this letter, I make you an offer: a free subscription to my e-mail newsletter, GARY NORTH'S REALITY CHECK. It shows you what you must do to prepare for a collapse. But I don't recommend that you sign up for it before you have read this report. Otherwise, you won't believe me in REALITY CHECK. When I wrote the earliest version of this report in late 1996, very few people outside of the computer industry knew about the Year 2000 Problem, sometimes called Y2K or the Millennium Bug. I had known about it since 1992, but the realization of what it meant did not hit me for over four years. When it finally hit, my life changed. But not as much as it will change in 2000. So will yours. Word is now getting out about the Millennium Bug's threat to all systems. For example, as 1998 began, the press picked up the story of the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), which relies on aging IBM mainframe computers that are not 2000-compliant, and which IBM says cannot be made 2000-compliant. This was the first widely circulated admission that one of the America's critical infrastructures is at risk. The story was confirmed when the British equivalent of the FAA admitted that its computers are equally vulnerable. This means that a drastic cut in airline travel will take place in 2000. Yet this realization has not hit investors in airline stocks. They hear, but they do not connect the story with its inevitable implications. This is true in every area threatened by Y2K. Investors hear, but they do not connect. They will connect in 1999. On February 4, President Clinton signed an executive order on Y2K. It warned that government agencies are now at risk. This executive order set up a commission to discover ways to pressure government agencies to get 2000- compliant. Not one cabinet-level Federal agency is compliant today. In the same week, the U.S. Department of Defense's Acting Secretary for Command, Control, Communications and Intelligence resigned. He was in charge of the Department's y2k repairs. Two other senior staff members also resigned. We are still waiting for any money center bank -- or any other bank -- anywhere in the world to announce that it is 100% Year 2000-compliant. The same is true of every phone company, power generation plant, and major city water utility. Yet the public just sits there, as if nothing were at risk. But everything is at risk. THE BREAKDOWN IN THE DIVISION OF LABOR What are you going to be doing for a living in the year 2001? Unless you're a fix-it man living in a small town, you probably won't be doing what you do today. If you make your living in financial services, you will surely be doing something else. If you're a journalist, you will be in a new profession. But what? What other useful service can you provide? You have very little time to make the switch. Let me show you why. We live in a world that depends on a high division of labor. That world has less than three years to go. In one gigantic collapse, the division of labor will implode. This implosion will begin in 1999. It will accelerate in 2000 and thereafter. Those who work in highly specialized fields will find little or no demand for their skills, in the face of an enormous supply of desperate, low-wage competition. Any job classification that did not exist in 1945 will probably not have a lot of demand in 2001, with one exception: computer software programming. The June 2, 1997, issue of NEWSWEEK ran a front-cover story on the looming computer crisis of the Year 2000 -- called Y2K (Year 2 K -- shorthand for a thousand). In the week it the article appeared (late May), the Dow Jones Industrial Average set a record new high. (It was beaten a week later.) If investors believed the information reported in the Newsweek article, the world's stock markets would have collapsed. But they have risen. Clearly, people don't believe the story. That's why a small handful of people can get out now -- out of the stock market, the bond market, and any city over 25,000. Not everyone can get out at the top of a bull market. This includes the "bull market" known as modern industrial society. Pull the plug on the local power utility for 30 days, and every city on earth becomes unlivable. What if the plug gets pulled for five years? How do you rebuild the shattered economy if the computers go down, taking public utilities with them? Without electricity, you can't run the computers. Without computers, you can't fix computers. How can you assemble teams of programmers to fix the mess? More to the point, how do you pay them if the banks are empty? Chase Manhattan Bank has 200 million lines of code to check and then repair. Citicorp has 400 million lines. All big banks are similarly afflicted. And even if this could be fixed, bank by bank, there is no universal repair standard. Thus, the computers, even if fixed (highly doubtful) will not work together after the individual repairs. A noncompliant bank's data will then make every compliant bank noncompliant. Thus, the world banking system will crash in 2000. When the public figures this out in 1999, the bank runs will begin. Then there are the gigantic Japanese banks, the European banks, and Latin American banks. The managers of these banks are not nearly so far along in awareness as U.S. bankers, yet as of February, 1998, there is not one 2000-compliant money center bank in the United States. Banking is international. It is a system. A breakdown of the computers in thousands of banks will affect all of them. Even if every U.S. bank could achieve 2000-compliance, what good would this do if the other nations' banks don't? But almost nobody discusses this. The United States is dependent on what the computer programmers in all the other countries do. Today, they're doing almost nothing on Y2K. Bank runs are inevitable. The public will eventually figure out what's going to happen. On that day, the runs will begin. The modern world economy will begin to shut down. My conclusion: You probably will not have your present job in 2001. ELECTRICAL POWER: OUR LIFE-SUPPORT SYSTEM Take a look at BUSINESS WEEK (March 2, 1998). The headline is mild; the facts in the story are terrifying. The central industry on earth is now at risk: electrical power. The story reported: In particular, electric utilities are only now becoming aware that programmable controllers -- which have replaced mechanical relays in virtually all electricity-generating plants and control rooms -- may behave badly or even freeze up when 2000 arrives. Many utilities are just getting a handle on the problem. "It's probably six months too soon for anyone to try to guess the complete extent of the problem," says Charlie Siebenthal, manager of the Year 2000 program at the Electric Power Research Institute, the industry group that serves as an information clearinghouse. "We don't know" if electricity flow will be affected, he said. Got that? The agency that charges $75,000 to each of its members to be part of a Y2K repair information forum tells us, "we don't know." The agency that represents the most important industry on the face of the earth says, "we don't know." But your friends and relatives do. They say, "We know: no problem." They ignore the facts, such as: Nuclear power plants, of course, pose an especially worrisome problem. While their basic safety systems should continue to work, other important systems could malfunction because of the 2000 bug. In one Year 2000 test, notes Jared S. Wermeil, who is leading the millennium bug effort at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the security computer at a nuclear power plant failed by opening vital areas that are normally locked. For that reason, the NRC is in the process of issuing a letter requesting confirmation from utilities that their plants will operate safely come Jan. 1, 2000. Given the complexity and the need to test, "it wouldn't surprise me if certain plants find that they are not Year 2000-ready and have to shut down," says Wermeil. Given the fact that of the 108 nuclear power plants in the U.S., not one is 2000-compliant, I think this is a safe prediction. The experts in this field are supposed to know. Our lives depend on a continuous supply of electrical power to run all of the infrastructures. If this supply line breaks, the entire civilization breaks. If the whole grid goes down, local systems will not be able supply power to systems that are down. Every regional system depends on the others to supply power to reboot it if it goes down. But an overload condition could hit them all. How can they reboot the components of the system if the system itself is down? Or if most of the components are down? How do we recover from Y2K if there is no power? How long will this take? A decade? What happens to the division of labor that makes possible complex power generation systems if they go down? If we can't recover power because the power is off, what happens to 250 million Americans, most of whom live in cities that will not survive if the power goes off? "We don't know." It gets worse. Rick Cowles works as a Y2K advisor for power generating companies -- big ones. Here is his assessment, as of February 27: the industry will not make it. It won't even come close. He writes: "Most electric utilities are still, for the most part, in the awareness/inventory stage of Y2k. Some are actually still fighting about 'how to conduct inventory'. There is very little upper management appreciation of the depth of the Y2k issue." My comment: according to the California White Paper (the state of California's official guideline), awareness counts for 1% of a repair project; inventory is 1%. When you've completed the inventory, you have 98% of the project ahead of you. Cowles' sample of America's power companies indicates that most of them have not completed their inventory. He goes on: Not one electric company has started a serious remediation effort on its embedded controls. Not one. Yes, there's been some testing going on, and a few pilot projects here and there, but for the most part it is still business-as-usual, as if there were 97 months to go, not 97 weeks. Almost all electric utility projects are severely understaffed. I was at an independent generating company this week, which is responsible for production of nearly 3000 megawatts between just two large generating plants. This company still doesn't have a single full-time person dedicated to Y2k, and this includes the project manager. This is a . . . $5 billion operation, and their management has committed only a few hundred thousand dollars of 'seed money' to the project. I sincerely feel sympathy for the Y2k project manager. My conclusion is simple: It is time for you to begin taking Y2K seriously -- a lot more seriously than the public does. The public's apathy is the only thing that allows you a little more time to get prepared. "IT JUST CAN'T BE TRUE!" You don't believe me, of course. Not yet. But I have published the evidence on my Web site. You can verify what I'm saying. But you still won't believe it. Why not? Because it's too painful. In their book, THE SOVEREIGN INDIVIDUAL, Davidson and Rees-Mogg make a very important observation: A recent psychological study disguised as a public opinion poll showed that members of individual occupational groups were almost uniformly unwilling to accept any conclusion that implied a loss of income for them, no matter how airtight the logic supporting it. Given increased specialization, most of the interpretive information about most specialized occupational groups is designed to cater to the interests of the groups themselves. They have little interest in views that might be impolite, unprofitable, or politically incorrect (p. 339). My views are all three: impolite, unprofitable, and politically incorrect. Impolite, because I am saying this: (1) those advising you are as blind as an eighth-century Israelite king; (2) they have given you information that will prove to be wildly unprofitable; (3) all the hype about your getting rich -- the world's getting rich -- is a clap-trap. We are heading for a disaster greater than anything the world has experienced since the bubonic plague of the mid-14th century. Because the year 2000 begins on a Saturday, millions of victims will not be aware of their dilemma until the following Monday or Tuesday. They will pay no attention to advance warnings, such as this one, that they are at risk. As you read this report, I want you to think to yourself: "How will this affect me? Is my business at risk? Is my income at risk? What should I do?" I also want you to visit my Web site, http://www.garynorth.com and examine the accumulating evidence, week by week. THE ORIGIN OF THE PROBLEM Here is the problem. Over four decades ago, computer programmers who wrote mainframe computer software in a way that saved punch card space -- two digits out of 80 -- by designating year codes as two-digit entries: 67 instead of 1967, 78 instead of 1978, etc. Back then, saving this seemingly minuscule amount of space seemed like an economically wise decision. This may prove to be the most expensive forecasting error since Noah's flood. What the programmers ignored is this: in the year 2000, the two digits will be 00. The computer will sit there, looking for a year. At midnight, January 1, 2000, every mainframe computer using unrevised software dies or else gets unreliable -- very, very sick. Programmers who recognized the implications of this change did not care or could not persuade their employers. They assumed that their software would be updated by year 2000. That assumption now threatens every piece of custom software sitting on every mainframe computer, unless the owner of the computer has had the code rewritten. In some cases, this involves coordinating two billion lines of code. (Example: General Motors) One error on one line can shut down the whole system, the way that America Online was shut down for a day in 1996 because of a one-digit error. The handful of reporters who have investigated this problem have met a wall of indifference. "We're all using microcomputers now." "This is a problem only for a few companies that are still using mainframes." "Cheap solutions will appear as soon as there is demand." "The software will be updated soon, and I'll buy it then." LARGE ORGANIZATIONS RELY ON BAD LEGACY CODE On September 24, 1996, Congressman Stephen Horn, who is Chairman of the Subcommittee on Government Management, Information, and Technology, submitted to the full committee a report on the Year 2000 problem. The Subcommittee held hearings on April 16. He said that these hearings revealed "a serious lack of awareness of the problem on the part of a great number of people in business and government. Even more alarming was the cost estimate reported to the Subcommittee to remedy the problem, which was said to be $30 billion for the Federal Government alone." Then he announced: Without greater urgency, those agencies risk being unable to provide services or perform functions that they are charged by law with performing. Senior agency management officials must take aggressive action if these problems are to be avoided. Yet despite Horn's 1996 warning, nothing much has happened since then, as he continues to remind us in public hearing after hearing. In late 1997, he gave near-failing grades to the Department of Defense and the Department of Transportation. Also to the Treasury Department, which is where investors have put seven trillion dollars, not counting Social Security. These agencies must shift hundreds of millions of dollars from their existing budgets to hire outside programmers to rewrite the code that runs these agencies. This isn't being done. More to the point, the longer they delay, the worse the problem gets. You can't just go out and hire programmers who are familiar with the code. As businesses find out what threatens them, the demand for these highly specialized services will soar. (If businessmen don't figure this out in time, payment will come due in January of 2000.) The Subcommittee's 1996 report warned: "This issue may cause banks, securities firms and insurance companies to ascertain whether the companies they finance or insure are year 2000 compliant before making investment decisions." It also said that companies will start demanding contractual warranties guaranteeing against Year 2000 breakdowns. In 1999, there will be international bank run, when depositors demand cash. But there is very little cash available. This will threaten banks with bankruptcy (bank + rupture = bankruptcy). Withdrawals will then be prohibited by the government. Bureaucrats will ration your own money back to you. If electricity goes off completely for as short a period as a month, cities will become unhabitable. The Subcommittee's 1986 report warned: The clock is ticking and most Federal agencies have not inventoried their major systems in order to detect where the problem lies within and among each Federal department, field office and division. The date for completion of this project cannot slip. By "cannot," the Subcommittee's report-writer meant "must not." The date can surely be allowed to slip. It almost certainly will be allowed to slip. Additionally, the task may be more difficult for the public sector, where systems have been in use for decades, may lack software documentation and therefore increase the time it takes from the inventory phase to solution. Did you get that? The software code's records are gone! Remember also that we're not just talking about the United States government. We're talking about every government -- national, state, and local -- anywhere on earth that has its data stored on an unrevised mainframe computer system or which relies on any third-party computer service that uses uncorrected software. Congressman Horn released a report on December 11, 1997. He warned: "Another year has passed and the latest data show that the current work on the year 2000 problems in Federal computers is unacceptable and potentially disastrous." That same day, he wrote a letter to the Director of the Office of Management and Budget. He said (underlined): "Unfortunately, at the current rate of progress, most Federal systems will not be able to handle the date change by January 1, 2000." KISS MEDICARE GOODBYE Some 38 million people will receive Medicare payments in 1997. In 2000, an estimated one billion claims will be filed, totalling over $288 billion. This, according to a May 16, 1997 report of the General Accounting Office (GAO): "Medicare Transaction System." Problem: the Medicare system won't make it through 2000. The same GAO report shows why. Medicare claims are not actually administered by Medicare. It's administered by 70 private agencies. These agencies have been informed that their contracts will not be renewed in 2000. The agency that officially supervises Medicare has plans for one huge computer system that will bring the program in-house. It is the same dream that motivated the Internal Revenue Service for the past 11 years. The IRS announced earlier this year that after 11 years and $4 billion, the attempt had failed. Medicare now knows that it has a problem with its computers. They are not Year 2000-compliant. So, to make sure that they will be compliant, Medicare has issued an appeal to the 70 newly canned companies: please fix the year 2000 problem for us before you leave. As the GAO report puts it, "contractors may not have a particularly high incentive to properly make these conversions. . . ." What if the system fails? (What if? Are they kidding? When!) The report says that the Health Care Financing Administration (HCFA), which is responsible for running Medicare, has not made contingency plans. "HCFA officials are relying on the contractors to identify and complete the necessary work in time to avoid problems. Yet the . . . . contractors not only have not developed contingency plans, they have said that they do not intend to do so because they believe that this is HCFA's responsibility." In the fall of 1997, President Clinton killed the entire Medicare Transition project. It had failed. But the Millennium Bug is still present, waiting patiently to shut down the entire Medicare system. The public is not aware of any of this, even though it's in the public record. Psychological denial is universal. KISS THE IRS GOODBYE The Internal Revenue System has 100 million lines of code. (Well, other reports say 70 million, 60 million, or whatever -- they really don't know.) Their code is not year 2000-compliant. After the failure of the 11-year project to upgrade the system, Chief Information Officer Arthur Gross announced that getting the IRS year 2000-compliant is the "highest priority for the IRS." In April of 1998, he left the IRS. But what he had revealed is startling. The IRS has nearly 50,000 code applications to coordinate and correct. This task will require the IRS to move 300 full-time computer programmers to the new project. For comparison purposes, consider the fact that the Social Security Administration began working on its year 2000 repair in 1991. Social Security has 30 million lines of code. By June, 1996, the SSA's 400 programmers had fixed 6 million lines. (A year later, they claimed they had corrected 18 million lines. But then the word got out: they had discovered another 33 million lines administered by 50 states -- all of which ties into the SSA system. The SSA now says that this new code -- noncompliant -- is not "mission-critical." They are simply defining the problem out of bureaucratic existence. But they can't define the Bug out of electronic existence.) What if the IRS isn't technically equipped to pursue tax evaders after December 31, 1999? What if the IRS computer system isn't fully integrated with all of its branch offices? What if the system's massive quantities of forms are not stored in a computer system that is Year 2000-compliant? More to the point, what if 20% of America's taxpayers believe that the IRS can't get them if they fail to file a return? In 1999, the IRS may find a drop in compliance from self-employed people. If the IRS can't prosecute these people after 1999, there will be a defection of compliance by the self-employed. When word spreads to the general public, there will be a hue and cry -- maybe at first against the evaders, but then against employers who are sending in employees' money when self-employed people are escaping. Meanwhile, cash-only, self-employed businesses will begin to lure business away from tax-compliant businesses by offering big discounts. This will start happening all over the world. Once it begins, it will not easily be reversed. The tax system rests on this faith: (1) the government will pay us what it owes us; (2) the government can get us if we stop paying. Both aspects of this faith will be called into question in the year 2000 if the governments' computers are not in compliance. Big Brother is no more powerful than his software. On January 1, 2000, this strength may fall to zero. Actually, double zero. If the IRS cannot collect taxes, and if all the other mainframe computer-dependent tax collection agencies on earth do not fix this, what will happen to the government debt markets worldwide? To interest rates? To the government-guaranteed mortgage market? Kiss them all goodbye. "NO PROBLEM! TRUST ME!" When I wrote the first version of this report in 1996, there are a handful of conservative financial newsletter writers who had heard about Y2K. They all denied its economic relevance. They all know about it today, but virtually none of them warns his subscribers. To do so would be a belated admission that "North was right," and there is no way to protect yourself except by survivalist techniques, which most of them except Don McAlvany and Larry Abraham have long since dismissed as silly. To admit that I'm right would involve eating gigantic quantities of crow in full public view. It isn't going to happen. Besides, a shut-down of all mainframe computers would mean that newsletter writers will be out of business after 1999 -- a thought too terrifying for them. So, they still brush Y2K aside with some version of this rebuttal: "Of course, the government may not get its computers fixed." This is supposed to calm you. It should terrify you. Ask yourself: What happens to T-bills and T-bonds if the IRS computer breaks down and a tax revolt spreads because taxpayers know the IRS will never find them, and that if they pay their taxes, they won't get their refunds? What happens to money market funds and bond funds that invest heavily in government debt when investors realize that if the IRS can't collect taxes, the government will default on its debt? What happens to the banks when depositors figure out that the FDIC is bankrupt and that nobody insures their accounts any more? What happens to your job when the banks close because of bank runs, and no business can borrow money or even write a check to its employees? What happens to the delivery of food into cities when money fails because the banks are busted? What happens to the delivery of public utilities when money fails because the banks are busted? What happens to your retirement fund when ERISA, the government pension guarantee program, goes bankrupt? What happens to the 38 million people in the U.S. who are dependent on Medicare? What happens to 42 million people on Social Security? What happens to every state government? What happens to crime rates when the state cannot imprison violent criminals and may have to release those who are locked up because they can't be fed? What happens to the world economy when this scenario is multiplied across every government? Kiss you job goodbye. Especially if you're a journalist. I know. I am one. I figure I'll be out of work -- forced retirement -- January 1, 2000. I'm making plans to be in small-scale agriculture. I'm out of debt. What about you? PSYCHOLOGICAL DEFERRAL Those in authority prefer to defer thinking about this. They are playing Scarlett O'Hara: "I'll think about it tomorrow," followed by, "Well, fiddle dee-dee." Deferral is a normal response to distant problems. The question is: What can we afford to defer? People defer making this assessment. The fact that you have not read much about this looming problem doesn't mean that it isn't a problem. If your employer has not actively sought solutions to this problem, your firm had better not use mainframe computers or be dependent on suppliers that rely on mainframe computers. Everyone assumes that someone else is doing something to solve these problems. "It's being taken care of." The problem here is the passive voice. Who, exactly, is taking care of it? What, exactly, is this person doing? Is he on schedule? How do you know for sure? Are you taking his word for it? Anyone who takes the word of a computer programmer that he is on schedule is a person of very great faith. If the programmer says "Sorry, I didn't make it" on December 31, 1999, you're dead in the water. WHAT YOU SHOULD DO, BEGINNING TODAY First, you investigate whether what I'm saying is true. Second, think through what happens to you if the local power company and the local water and sewage company shut down in your city for six months. "Who ya gonna call?" Especially if your phone is dead? And if you do get through, how ya gonna pay if your local bank is defunct? Third, here is my personal strategy. I have adopted a question: "Can I prove on paper that he owes it to me?" I want hard copy print-outs of everything I do with the government. If you are owed money from Social Security, and you're dependent on this income, contact the Social Security Administration every year and get a letter telling you what you're owed. This is true of every government pension system. Do you have a copy of your birth certificate? If not, write to your place of birth and get it. Even if that community has not computerized the records, do it now. Even if it keeps the records in a desktop, do it. If word starts to spread, they may be buried in requests in 1999. You want your paperwork completed before word gets out. Do you have a copies of your educational transcripts? If not, get them. The same goes for your work record history. Assume that your records are in some company's mainframe computer. Assume also that the company has failed to update the software. Do you have a print-out of all of your insurance records? Would they stand up in court? If not, get what you need, now. Have you spoken with your local insurance agent? Is he fully aware of the problem? Ask him straight out if he has scheduled an update of his software if he relies on vendor-supplied software. He deserves to know what is coming. So do you. (If you want to photocopy this issue to send him, go ahead.) Think through this problem in advance, before it gets out and creates a banking panic, all over the world. This story will get out eventually. In 1999, when reporters are running around looking for sensational Year 2000-third millennium stories, this one will at last surface. At that point, every government bureaucrat whose agency is at risk will start playing the "No problem" game. "It's being taken care of." The bureaucrat's number-one rule is to evade responsibility. No one with any authority is going to admit that his malfeasance in office is going to create a disaster on Jan. 1, 2000. The basic response will be this: "There's no problem here, and furthermore, I'm not responsible when everything collapses next year!" A FREE SUBSCRIPTION I publish an e-mail newsletter, GARY NORTH'S REALITY CHECK. It covers aspects of the Year 2000 Problem. There is no other Web-based newsletter like it. It comes out at least once a month and sometime more often, if there is something significant happening. I cover what you need to do to get ready for a depression -- or worse. But if you don't visit my Web site regularly, you probably won't believe me. Address: http://www.garynorth.com Please, do not sign up for REALITY CHECK if you aren't really concerned about Y2K. In it, I "preach to the converted." It will only bother you if you have not visited my Web site and read a few dozen of its posts. The newsletter is not designed to persuade; it's designed to motivate people to take action while there's still time. There isn't much time remaining. You can receive it by clicking through: mailto:list-request@metanet.net In the Message Box, write: subscribe remnant-list You don't need to write anything in the smaller Subject Box unless your e-mail software requires this. - 13:16:32 on 25 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (Armageddon outta here):MARLENE: See, what did I tell you! 2000/the Trinity= 666.666 recurring!!! QUAKE: Sorry to disappoint you, but I've ran a check and my computer will be fine in the millenium. Funny though, I missed the bit in the bible where it mentioned about computers and BIOS faults. Maybe you meant the four source codes of the apocalypse? I don't know about Gary North, but I think you should take a reality check... - 13:45:19 on 25 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->ROB..you mean you actually read his post? A+ for patience. - 14:36:46 on 25 Sep 98 GMT

Rob (shit/bugger):JOETTE: And there was me thinking valium made you drowsy ;) But how could I not read it, when Quake had obviously painstakingly read and assimilated all that information, only to kindly type it out for our benefit? ;) - 14:54:26 on 25 Sep 98 GMT

Steven:Man, I was hoping that the QUACK wouldn't EVER make it back, he disappointed me. :[ - 19:18:31 on 25 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:The return of the nutcases may have something to do with their insurance running out. - 19:28:56 on 25 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE..speaking of nutcases, have you seen the news reports about that Tim Hortons in Bras D'Or. Hundreds of people have been gathering to see the face of Jesus in the bricks of the building. Jesus must be Canadian if he is so keen on attaching himself to a doughnut shop! - 21:12:49 on 25 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->speaking of Quakes...I was sitting at my puter at 4:00 p.m. when things started to rock 'n roll. Seems there was an earthquake in Ohio (epicentre) whereby the tremors were felt all over southern Ontario. - 21:40:15 on 25 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- Yes, I heard all about "him" appearing on that doughnut shop wall. Not only Canadian, maybe "he" may be a cop wanna be. That quake was a 5.5, no? Big time for that area! For anyone interested, I'm leaving a site address that I visit often. - 13:18:42 on 26 Sep 98 GMT

Bill..:QUAKE, Your sky-is-falling assessment of the year 2000 is a bit much. Yes, I'm sure there will be some problems, and I plan to take reasonable precautions, but I see no need to return to the farm and wait for death. Most banks are upgrading their computers to newer ones that are millenium compliant. Many banks are new and already have millenium compliant computers. Additionally, I have worked with a large electric utility for many years and I work on control systems that control the generating plants. Some very old units are still being controlled by Hagan, Republic, and Bailey pneumatic (air controls) and are not affected by Y2K problems. Some have evolved (changed) to analog (dc current loop) controls that have a "hard manual" capability. This "hard manual" has it's own power supply and allows the operator to operate the generating unit without the computerized "auto control" features. Unit operation wouldn't be as smooth in manual, but the operator could still operate. And the newer control systems are digitized (operator controls by sitting at a computer terminal). Many utilities have installed newer (millenium compliant) computerized systems on their biggest units since there is more to gain in efficient operation. Probably the reason that your Independent Power Producer isn't all that concerned about his two units (3000 MW's) is because these are obviously very large and new units that are most likely millenium compliant with the latest software. Utilities are use to problems and deal with them every day. We are currently being threatened by hurricane Georges that is due to hit tomorrow night. Three years ago we had two direct hits from hurricane Erin in August and hurricane Opal (category three) in Oc tober. Trees and lines were down for miles and the place looked like a war zone, but in less than a week all power was restored to 98% of the service area. It's quit possible that there are going to be some "unit outages" and maybe even some "brownouts" in various places throughout the country, but I see no reason to believe that they will be anything more than temporal and localized. Power will be restored as quickly as possible. I'm not trying to judge your reality here, but if you really believe in God, and a heavenly after life, why are you so concerned about this temporal existence anyway? - 16:52:15 on 26 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:--Hey Bill...welcome back to the land of the living. Is Georges wreaking havoc in your neck of the woods? - 17:21:53 on 26 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->ALL..discussion time..I have been wondering who TIME MAGAZINE will name as their man/woman of the century. I wonder if anyone has any opinions? My vote would be for Einstein, for various reasons. I posed this question on another page yesterday, and Mother Theresa was named more than once, and so someone else provided this URL (Marlene, it may be of particular interest to you). - 17:27:10 on 26 Sep 98 GMT

(please do not adjust your set; you are not seeing double) - 17:28:56 on 26 Sep 98 GMT

Bill..:Hi Joette, Hurricanes are so annoying. I was supposed to change all my carpet this weekend but postponed the job till next weekend. Instead I am battening down the hatches; even though the beautiful spring-like weather belies what tomorrow might bring. Currently it looks as though it will hit towards Miss. or Louisiana; but one never knows, as I have seen them stop and go a totally different direction. At the very least we will get a lot of rain and possible flooding here over the next four or five days. Well, have a good weekend in da nort. I might just have to head that way some day if these hurricanes don't let up a bit, ha! - 19:18:41 on 26 Sep 98 GMT

PapaSam:All. Let's pay attention to the really important happenings in the world, particularly in the state of Alabama in the good old USA. From the August 1998 issue of the American Atheist Newsletter. "God, Sexual Hypocricy, and the Great Alabama Dildo Law." A new law took effect on July 1 which makes it a misdemeanor to distribute "any device designed or marketed as useful primarily for the stimulation of human genital organs." My personal belief is that the word "primarily" was included to protect the tobacco growers and cigar manufacturers. As Ken Starr has pointed out, Bill and Monica were cigar friendly. It raises a few questions in my prurient mind. Does the user remove the cellophane wrapper or leave it on to prevent nicotine poisoning? Does the user(s) smoke the cigar afterwards? So many questions! Aren't you glad I'm back on line to bring these things to your attention? - 4:18:00 on 27 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:PAPASAM- HA! HA! So..now what do all the horny women in Alabama do with themselves? Use cigars? - 16:07:22 on 27 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- Maybe the mix up with the paperwork resulting in MotherT's sojourn with Stan wasn't really a mix up. - 16:09:35 on 27 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->PAPASAM..what a silly law. Do they think this is going to enhance the morality of the state? Instead of people privately gratifying themselves, they are going to force people out into the bars, on the streets, etc. to satisfy their bilogical urges. By trying to correct a situation which is none of their business, they are amplifying other problems such as the number of STD's. Oh well, the lord giveth, and the lord taketh away. - 16:56:47 on 27 Sep 98 GMT

Gene Siskel:-->if anyone is in the mood for a gooooood movie, I would like to recommend "The Apostle" starring Robert Duvall. He was nominated for Best Actor for good reason. Really a good portrayal of evangalism. - 17:04:55 on 27 Sep 98 GMT

Joette..just rambling as a means of trying to bump the quakemeister's blitherings off the page:-->tis a sad day indeed. The last day of the regular baseball season, and I've lost yet another bet to Adam. Now how do I keep myself amused until next March???? - 17:07:00 on 27 Sep 98 GMT

Joette..looking for someone to come out and play...:-->CARL...that student (David Cage) was featured on 60 Minutes last night. Rather a moral dilemna, what? I know that my actions would have been different, but I am not he, and if he had only kept his mouth shut after the trial, he would probably not have buried such a deep hole for himself. I think objectivists could have a field day analyzing this. - 12:53:36 on 28 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- I also watched 60 Minutes last night. I agree that the less said by that kid, the better off he would have been. My question is one that the reporter didn't ask him and that question would be "If the child whom his friend assaulted and eventually killed, were white, would he have stopped his friend then?". I know that I wouldn't want the kid on my team at any rate. - 13:24:16 on 28 Sep 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE..interesting. I hadn't given that any thought. I did wonder why someone would have a 7 year old in a casino at 3 a.m. however. The mother is on a bandwagon, understandably, but I wonder if she is trying to sway public opinion in her favour to take any culpability from herself or her ex-husband. - 14:08:29 on 28 Sep 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- I agree, what in hell were the parents doing with a child in a casino at 3:00 AM!! I think of the colour thing because my ex-mother-in-law feels that any person whom is not white, isn't human. It's a terrible belief but it's alive in her little mind. It's also alive in a lot of other little minds. - 14:41:23 on 28 Sep 98 GMT

HAS EVERYONE DROPPED OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH???? - 16:52:24 on 29 Sep 98 GMT

bump:BE GONE QUAKE - 16:53:34 on 29 Sep 98 GMT

..... - 16:54:27 on 29 Sep 98 GMT

bbbbbbbbbb - 16:55:18 on 29 Sep 98 GMT

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; - 16:56:12 on 29 Sep 98 GMT

mucho mejore - 16:57:01 on 29 Sep 98 GMT

Steven :Go Rangers, Go Rangers, Go Rangers!!!!!! - 18:20:48 on 29 Sep 98 GMT

Mal:Belfast Athiest calls out to other sane people. You should try living here with all the nutters. Unbelievable. - 20:30:05 on 30 Sep 98 GMT