Carl:ANY: Did ya'll like Huck and Jim and that gang, I often meant to bring up this 'URL' either again or finally, enjoy - 20:19:12 on 31 Jul 98 GMT

Joette:-->Big controversy in Hollywood...a church about two miles from the "Walk of Fame" has installed its own star for Jesus. Now it looks like there will be a court injunction to have the church remove the star for "The Son Of God". The pastor of the church wants to star a "Walk of Faith". Is nothing sacred anymore? - 1:00:06 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

Tim:What I don't understand is how a group of semi-intelligent people can sit around and actually spend time talking about how much you don't believe in something. I don't believe in the Easter Bunny but I don't have a web-site devoted to how much I don't believe in the Easter Bunny. Get a Life. - 2:15:50 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:TIM ARE YOU THAT DIM??? What I don't understand is why a genius like yourself would waste your precious time posting on a site that IYO is semi-intelligent and you tell us to get a life, LOL! - 2:20:51 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

Tim:MARKENE: The anti-Easter Bunny page I'm working on is down right now so I thought I'd join some of my brothers and sisters and a rousing cheer for Nothing! - 2:25:18 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->TIMBIT...anti-easter bunny? How can you be against something you don't believe in? Maybe you have a life and some of us don't (IYO) but if we are semi-intellient, you must be thick as a brick. You would be better off watching Jerry Springer than venturing onto a page that you know naught of which you speak. - 2:49:02 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

MarKlene:TIM- I happen to like the easter bunny, he's such an animal! - 2:50:09 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

dana:lol, Tim was even dedicated enough to hang around and read the replies. As if insulting strangers on the internet isn't pathetic enough. I'd like to point out to him (as I'm sure he's still lurking around somewhere) that there are not thousands of adults trying to pass laws based on their firm belief in the easter bunny. - 2:50:58 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene aka MarKlene:HEY JOETTE- Are we actually on line at the same time?? - 2:51:33 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:DANA- Maybe Dim Tim will ponder that point! - 2:52:53 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE..let's look we are! My nemesis Erika has been in the news again this week. There is a big push on in this city for the legalization of marijuana, so she has been out with her bull horn. Fortunately, the media is starting to mock her now. - 2:57:24 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

dana:PapaSam: OK, what's a boar hog? =) - 2:58:47 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->being the baseball fan I am, I laughed aloud tonight when a pitcher for the team I root for responded to his being traded today as "This is what the lord wants me to do". So, I guess the owners and general managers of baseball teams have become gods, because they are the "superior beings" deciding his fate. Either that, or the fact that the team trading him doesn't want to keep paying him millions for nothing. - 3:03:56 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->I read an interesting article tonight about scientists who think they are one step closer to discovering how the universe was formed. If anyone is interested, I can post the article.... - 3:05:55 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->in the immortal words of MARKENE: "Goodnight athiests!" - 3:07:04 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- I waited a bit but logged off. Yes! Please post the article. Erika must be smokin', LOL! - 3:21:48 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:DANA. A boar hog is a male swine. The expression originated in hillbilly country many years ago. Since teats (tits) are used to suckle the young, it is obvious that a boar hog would be unable to do so. To illustrate the point, I will quote another old adage - "No matter how hungry a baby is, it never cries for its father." If you have any further questions, please let me know - or see your local veterinarian.(>:) - 3:45:36 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:--TIM--( This is a 'form' post specially prepared for those whose allegations about the pointlessness of discussing atheism are brought to the attention of this chattroom )--- If atheism can be compared to not believing in the Easter Bunny, why is it important? Atheism is important because theism is important. The subject of God is not a remote, abstract topic of little importance in the lives of men. On the contrary, it is the core of Western religion--specifically, the Judeo-Christian tradition--which includes a system of doctrines dealing with every major branch of philosophy. If one believes, as I do, that theism is not only false, but in detrimental to man as well, then the choice between theism and atheism assumes a major importance. If considered as a purely abstract idea, theism may be dismissed without extended discussion. but when considered within its proper context--within the framework of its historical, cultural,philosophical and psychological signifigance--the question of god is among the most crucial subjects of our time......Although atheism is negative in character, it need not be destructive. When used to eradicate superstition and its detrimental effects, atheism is a benevolent, constructive approach. It clears the air, as it were, leaving the door open for positives principles and philosophies based, not on the supernatural, but on man's ability to think and comprehend.....Religion has had a disastrous affect on placing vitally important concepts, such as morality, happiness and love, in a supernatural realm inaccessible to man's mind and knowledge. Morality and religion have become so intertwined that many people cannot conceive of ethics divorced from god, even in principle--which leads to the assumption that the atheist is out to destroy values. Atheism, however, is not the destruction of morality; it is the destruction of supernatural morality. Likewise. atheism is not the destruction of love and happiness; it is the destruction of the idea that happiness and love can be achieved only in another world. Atheism brings ideas down to earth, within the reach of our minds. By severing any possible appeal to the supernatural--which, in terms of human knowledge means the unknowable--atheism demands that issues be dealt with reason and human understanding; they cannot be sloughed-off onto mysterious god....If atheism is correct, man is alone. There is no god to think for him, to watch out for him, to guarantee his happiness. These are our sole responsibility. If we want knowledge--we must think for ourselves. If we want success--we must work. If we want happiness, we must strive to achieve it. Some men consider a godless world to be a terrifying prospect; others experience it as a refreshing, exhilarating challenge. How a person will react to atheism depends only on himself--and the extent to which he is willing to assume responsibility for his choices and actions - 3:50:59 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:DANA. A boar hog is a male swine. The expression originated in hillbilly country many years ago. Since teats (tits) are used to suckle the young, it is obvious that a boar hog would be unable to do so. To illustrate the point, I will quote another old adage - "No matter how hungry a baby is, it never cries for its father." If you have any further questions, please let me know - or see your local veterinarian.(>:) - 3:57:22 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

DANA--:--Tim initially brought up a point worthy of serious resonse, until the phrase 'Get a life' appeared, which was antagonistic and unecessary. By saying this, he set his own table for the nature of the responses he would realistically expect. An honest inquiry would have quite sufficed, but he found it necessary to insult every atheist who appears on this board--hence the inevitable hostile responses. - 3:58:19 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

dana:Thanks PapaSam. That was very informative. =) There must be more than one "DANA" posting.. mine will always be in lower case. - 5:19:44 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

Tim:Just thought I'd check back to see if you are fired up now. Yep! As for the "Get a life" comment, I apologize, you are correct, that was unnescessary. My point was made, but misunderstood. I am not putting anyone down for beliefs (or lack thereof) but I just don't understand what it is you talk about. I read your responses before I posted and it was boring. Why do you take the time to post mindless (angry)chit-chat? There's got to be something better to do with your time. In the time that you took responding with your silly remarks about me personally I was out having a good time. Now I'm back and you're still talking. -BORING!!- - 5:29:53 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:--TIM--Did you not read that post I directed at you about what the point of discussing atheism is all about? I fail to see how I did not make this clear to you. What more explanation could you possibly need? - 6:36:01 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->TIM..some people consider talking a "good time". Maybe it's different from what you consider a "good time". Some people like to go to clubs, in pursuit of filling a lonliness gap or to satisfy their physical urges. Some people like to take walks, read a book, ride motorcyles, watch baseball games, surf the internet, or whatever it takes to satisfy their passions. So, consider this...maybe the people that were still here were also having a good time. What is right for you in not necessarily what is right for others. - 12:31:10 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene ...WRONG--:TIM- Nope! I rarely get "fired up". In fact, your attack on atheists is quite mild in comparison with some of the other posters. You just amuse me. - 14:14:00 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

modhu:Tim...If you refuse to consider the responses to your post as viable answers to your question, then I suggest you go back to your bar rooms, your message palors and don't try to understand the game of life. We are not merely watching the game. We are controlling it. - 16:50:20 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:TIM. As you know by now, using yourself as an example, anyone can come to this site to engage in mindless chit-chat. You seem to enjoy it. To me, you're just another mosquito buzzing around, whose existence depends on finding someone or something to feed on. You're out of your league. Consider yourself swatted. Now, having used up five minutes of my time, I'll go back to my other pursuits. - 17:43:26 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

I urged that kings were dangerous. He said, then have cats. He was sure that a royal family of cats would answer every purpose. They would be as useful as any other royal family, they would know as much, they would have the same virtues and the same treacheries, the same disposition to get up shindies with other royal cats, they would be laughable vain and absurd and never know it, they would be wholly inexpensive, finally, they would have as sound a divine right as any other royal house...The worship of royalty being founded in unreason, these graceful and harmless cats would easily become as sacred as any other royalties, and indeed more so, because it would presently be noticed that they hanged nobody, beheaded nobody, imprisoned nobody, inflicted no cruelties or injustices of any sort, and so must be worthy of a deeper love and reverence than the customary human king, and would certainly get it. - A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court - 17:49:01 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

this monkey of psi* - 18:00:21 on 1 Aug 98 GMT

A Hater of Robert T. Lee:I heard that Robert T. Lee died. Is that the truth? Will someone confirm this so I can laugh? - 0:14:01 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:ANONYMOUS HATER..please cite your sources. I don't think the death of another is something one should be laughing about. - 3:12:43 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:A HATER OF RTL- I don't think he died or we would have likely gotten some type of sign from his god, like food for the hungry or a miracle cure for cancer. We also would have heard the wailing from STAN down below crying "First Mother T now RTL, I can't STANd it!!!" - 3:12:52 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Joette...one night in Bangkok:-->MODHU...are you a CHESS fan too? (or are you just familiar with that song?) - 3:14:21 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- I would wager that that post was from RTL himself trying (and I mean trying really hard) to show how immoral we atheists are. - 3:14:54 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene..I hate to be a nag but..:JOETTE- Still waiting for you to post that info that scientists have discovered!!! - 3:16:56 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE..I had exactly that same thought. Afterall, I can't imagine he has any friends that would let people know about his demise. I guess we'll be getting another "Teacher" post in the next day or two. Ho hum. - 3:17:28 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Peg:Joette - You've answered your own question with the "what is right for you may not be necessarily right for others..." There is much in this world i don't believe in yet I don't feel the need to impress my belief or non-belief on others. As for Tim, he makes a valid point. If you don't believe in God or the Easter Bunny, so what. Let's get on with things that do matter to you and things you do believe in! - 3:22:18 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- Along with a STUDENT one, I would imagine. Guess what I'm doing tonight??? I'm babysitting two little week-old rabbits for my neighbour while they have gone out. The mother rabbit killed the rest of the litter for some reason (perfect "design" in nature, huh??). I'm feeding them with an eye-dropper. Are they ever cute! - 3:23:47 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene...:PEG- Sure let's all allow the religious right, like yourself no doubt, to base all our laws on the laws of their delusion, "god". This means that all gay people are "sick" and "immoral" and that all babies born to "unwed mothers" are "bastards" and that people who contracted AIDS through needle-sharing or sexual contact have gotten the disease because god caused them to have it due to the breaking of his laws, da da da da da da ...want me to go on???? - 3:29:24 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Peg:Marlene - God doesn't cause AIDS or because of any of "His laws" being broken. We all have a brain and know the risk associated with needle use and sex. Let's not cope out and blame the world's ills on God. Use your "God-given" brain to make the right decisions. We have to be accountable for our actions. Do i detect a little anger here? - 3:46:48 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene..:PEG- SO! I was right again. Another delusional xtian. Your god gave me dick all Peggy BECAUSE your god does not exsist. You xtians are all the same, your say "use your god-given brain" then ask a moronic question like "do I detect a little anger here". Your correct, I am angry about your god's inhumane laws. What makes me angrier yet is that subconsciously you KNOW it's not your god who makes all these moral judgements but you yourself. - 4:27:17 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Peg:Marlene - You want to let me in on my God's inhumane laws of which you speak? I don't think there's much inhumane about not killing the innocent or not committing adultery. Society as a whole would be a lot better off going by these rules; God-given or otherwise. I don't think i've made any moral judgements in my postings, just commenting on your obvious anger. - 4:43:26 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:PEG. If it's true, as Marlene thinks, that you are a christian, I suggest you read your bible very carefully and see what it says about women. If you would like me to point out the chapters and verses, I will be glad to do so. It degrades women, calling them unclean creatures of sin, only useful for breeding and as objects of mens' lust. Pay particular attention to St. Paul. He really 'puts you in your place'. - 4:44:40 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Hey Markeen and Papa Smurf: Take it easy on the girl. She's just trying to bring in an opposing viewpoint to your otherwise boring, pointless, and self-serving banter. By the way Markeen, if God gave you a dick, you should be happy! I am! JOETTE: Were you implying that satisfying your physical urges is a bad thing?? What do you care, you don't have a God to answer to. PETER: You fail to see how you didn't make your point clear to me? Did you actually read what you wrote? Me either. Blah, blah, blah. On and on. Learn how to summarize. - 5:02:31 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Tim:That last post was mine. MARKEEN: You sound fired up tonight! Great! You're fun to listen to when you're pissed off. - 5:05:38 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:PEG. Having just read your latest posting to Marlene about your god's not killing the innocent, I had to reply. Once again, read the bible. Pay special attention to Numbers 31, 17-18, and Judges 10-23. As for your "Prince of Peace", here are a few quotes. Luke 22:36 "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." Matthew 10:33-36 "Think not that I have come to send peace on earth. I come not to send peace but a sword. For I am come to set man at variance against a father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother -in-law." Here's a real goody. Luke 19-27 "But those mine enemies which would not that I should reign over them, bring thither and slay them before me." Well Peg, despite what the bible says about women, exemplified by Job: "How can he be clean that is born of woman?" - as an atheist I look upon women as equal partners with men in a symbiotic relationship. If you want to know what a god should really be like, write to me at my email address and I will be glad to email you a copy of my poem, "An Atheists Prayer", (No fee, no charge, offer open to anyone.) email me at PapaSam@webtv.net - 5:11:04 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

eARTHQuke Wheather in Powers O TEN or Tim:Current Timezone: Indian/Chagos Sun Aug 2 12:59:07 IOT 1998 Available Timezones Specifically, POSIX.1 says that they are offsets that you must add to the local time to arrive at Coordinated Universal Time. I planned them as a sort of year's cycle, dealing with Spring in LAST CALL, Fall in EXPIRATION DATE, and Winter in EARTHQUAKE WEATHER."Based on sci-fi masterpiece by Philip K. Dick, author of Blade Runner and Total Recall 2 game universes (Futurist and Pulp) with 15 different levels, each set a cyberspace environment 60 characters animated in 3D realtime using motion capture 60 types of psychic powers Multiple camera angles to change strategic viewing position at any time Artificial intelligence means enemies' performance improves through the game Requires careful management of a squad of soldiers that have lifelike team dynamics Gameplay features small units in close-range combat Spectacular cinematic transition sequences of replicants of Algol and you can't actually get your hairy prehensile tail over to the Godfrey Higgens work word state to ride in RAGBRAI... - 8:47:41 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene..I just love this anger thing!:DIM TIM- Either you are "Peg" or she is obviously known to you. This is very typical of xtians. The guy posts then their "woman" backs up them up. I've been here four years and this is the pattern. You may have a dick but where's your balls sweetheart, you've added nothing to the discussion but infantile insults. Come on, let's she what you got! - 13:45:35 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:PAPASAM- Maybe Peg is one of those women who listens to her hubby read the bible to them. Either he uses selective reading or she engages in selective listening. - 13:48:38 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene..:PEG- Adultery...sheesh! It's almost the 21st century! - 13:50:10 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->TIM..where in my post of the other day did I imply satisfying physical urges is a bad thing? No where. Please stop jumping to conclusions. My post clearly stated that what may constitute a "good time" for you may not necessarily be representative of a "good time" for others. Individuality my dear, individuality. - 14:39:23 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE..I've been on a cleaning frenzy this morning, and put my newspapers in the public recycling box...just for you, I will go see if I can dig that article out (let's hope nobody else was doing the same thing, 'cause then I will have to do some serious digging - people will think I'm a bag lady or something) - 14:41:32 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

STUDIES REVEAL MORE THEORIES ON OUR ORIGINS - by Maggie Fox - Reuters - Washington - :Three studies published Thursday cast more light on how life originated on Earth, painting a picture in which space dust provided the seeds, and a warm, volcanic environment the incubator. Jeremy Bailey of the Anglo-Australian Observatory in New South Wales, Australia, and collegues said they had found more evidence that amino acids, some of the basic building blocks of life, came from space. It boils down to chirality, the property of a molecule to exist in mirror-image versions known as a left-hand form and a right-hand form. The amino acids found in nearly all living organisms only exist in a left-handed form. Scientists have wondered how this could happen. In 1969 a meteorite, known as the Murchison meteorite, fell to Earth and recent analysis has shown it contains organic material full of left-handed amino acids. Some people said this provides evidence that amino acids from space may have seeded life on Earth. Bailey's team knew that when a substance containing equal amounts of right-and-left-handed molecules is exposed to light that has been circularly polarized, most of the molecules become either left-handed or right-handed. They looked into space and founds lots of circularly polarized infrared light in the constellation of Orion. Star-forming regions contain many organic molecules. Writing in the journal SCIENCE, Bailey's team suggests that ultraviolet light could have had the same effect on particles in space brought to earth. Assuming this happened, how did the amino acids get transformed into living organisms? Claudia Huber and Gunter Wachtershauser of Technische Universitat in Munich found a way to convert amino acids into peptides under conditions like those found in volcanoes. Peptides are the next step in building life, being intermediate between an amino acid and a protein. They heated amino acids to the boiling point in conditions that mimicked deep in the ocean near super-hot volcanic vents, they said. Peptides formed. In a third study, Itaru Nitta and colleagues at the University of Tokyo showed evidence that today's protein-based world may have evolved from a simpler "RNA world" in which there were no proteins. "The idea is you start with an RNA world and you somehow get to a world that has amino acids and proteins", said Paul Schimmel, a molecular biologist at the Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla, Calif. Nitta's team showned that part of RNA could, on their own, form a peptide bond, a first step to building life. "It really is the most obvious and simplest way to start (but) there's no direct proof that this is the case because we can't turn the clock back," Schimmel said. - 15:03:35 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Joette...What a Wonderful World!:-->on a completely unrelated search, I discovered this site. It may answer PEG's question. - 15:20:20 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Rob(Round whole of Square (no peg;)):Almost as bad as the food here... - 15:52:38 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Pam*** DIRECTED TO THE MONKEY mUSE of which it{?} labeled itself--> tHIS monkey muse of psi* peptide:I've seen your picture your name in lights above it. This is your big debut, it's like a dream come true. So, won't you smile for the cam'ra? I know they're gonna love it, Peg. I've got your pin shot I keep it with your letter, Done up in red print corny. It sure looks good on you. Done in 3 segemnets of Badb on intermittence ...For a forgotten fact is news when it comes again. - Following the eQUATOR of magick as Twain put it of my first quote of Twain's cat, next 8:47 on Aug 2, and now. So, won't you smile for the cam'ra? I know I'll love you better. Peg, it will come back to you. Peg, it will come back to you. Then the shutter falls You see it all in "Three-D." of DAD0eS It's your favourite foreign movie. [solo] I've got your pin shot I keep it with your letter, Done up in red left palm of flaming telepaths and now of the blue right. It sure looks good on you. So, won't you smile for the cam'ra? I know I'll love you better Ella, Ella, Ella, yor anibus gate ends not of every sentence with an exclamation poit [?}}} for your simple peptide bond is broken unlike my oRAL toungue... As jOHN Pankow rEMAINS in wILLING in the stone pillar of the wRITTEN foot...Tim Powers works are so formulic as any here can see and to be...tHE sTRESS of Her rEGARD --in left palm is so monkey muse for the grasshopper of Halloween h2o... the macaque of Japan 0 rotenbuo behavior is independently discovered by one monkey (psi*) and passed on to the others of the herd wRITTEN ...the peptide is of Algol and the transmission is broken for some reason of anibus gates and the behavior forgotten...and till the next psi* independent of think unsimplicity of atk. butterfly and Kafka in replicants of willings songs of wood troglodytes of which you ask in unsimple Tarski sentence fragments...Hy a threhevas y fen haga hanagas. --- Na Revrond, y myth, Ny raf wherthin nefra. Ny yllaf. Me a wovyn worth ow honyn stella fatell vea an floh hethow, pemp blowth, lymyn ow talleth bewa. Mas ny yll travyth defalyby an pith a ve gwrys. Ny vynsan gara then floh bos genys, hager dra, ha lymyn ny yllaf gava ow honyn. In della theso ge y thoff devethys. Ny ylla nagonyn ken gweras them. An den coth a vynwherthas. --- Powes lymyn ha me a bys thys, chyl vean, y myth. Hy a bowesas in gader ha keas y lagasow. An howl a splanna in ebron las heb commoll hag oll in dro thesa tros ythen ha can an govar esa a resak in dan an gweth vhell gwyr in luar teg. Nena hy a wellas an ell esa in powes warbyn carrack looes bras, ow mynwherthin thethy hag in dro thy dreys mos vean a worollyas, flowren kepar ha craysy in y dewleff ha flowren erell, blu ha roos aga lew, in dro thy fen. Lene a varth hy a wherthas ha nena hy a wherthas arta, pan rug crys cotha a thysempyas warnothy. An vos vean a hethas downsya haga vynwherthas haga leverys wheg then ell repthy: --- Myr, Mehall. Y ma Mam a wherthin. Dar nyns ew da hena. Hy a ageras y lagasow, an wherthin war y gwelavennow whath ha lowena in y begeth. Awosa polgy bean hy a vyras in ban in lagasow fur an den coth esa in vinwherthin cossoll thethy. Gwra merci Revrond. Y thom per tha lymyn ha me a vyn bos stella. Would you in wILLING like some ice cream Doc or Keith, David, Steve,in the formulism of unsimplicity??? At the eBAY auctions --> go check it out, go check it out EllA, EllA, EllA... - 16:12:06 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- Thankyou!! That's really interesting! It's been an arguement for years whether life evolved from substances already on the earth or from space debris. Looks like life may not be of terrestrial origins! BTW, that's an excellent site you sent ole Peg and Tim to. - 17:09:16 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:ROB- You mean you don't enjoy dog chow mein? - 17:11:17 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

The program I received in the mail for the conference: Biomass for Energy and Industry of Wurzburg August and time is very full and very interesting. Many of the poster presentations look more interesting than the main sessions. It promises to be a productive meeting. The conference does not seem to have a Web address. Conference registration contact numbers are given as: translucent, transmigratory, and teak I would hope that those who attend will report back to this group on new developments.General Topics include: Opening Sessiona and Fundamental Global and European Apects Worldwide Strategies for BiomassBiomass Policies in Europe Biomass Derived Industrial Products and Materials Biofuel Production and Utilization in the Transporting MarketBiogas Induslating Matierials in Renewable ResourcesBiofuels Biomass Energy Crops and ResiduesCombustion of Biomass Advanced Thermomechanical Conversion Processes and Novel Applicatoins Implementation IssuesWorkshops: Production and Use of Perenniel Rhizomatous Grasses (PRG) in the Energy and Industrial Sector of psi*...What is exorcism? Classically, it is a religious process that attempts to casting. Most religions would consider the foreign presence to be some form of the presence of evil. That is certainly the case for the Jewish and Christian traditions...Burberrys on set in "castig" one was ruined during filming of three Dietrich Markene...excuse me,excuse me, excuse... i am trying to find the bridge... where's that confounded bridge of cugel's crunge??? Tim Powers teleport.com - 18:08:52 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Napoleon:PAM. Please come join us here. Jesus, Caesar and I have been enjoying your postings and we feel you would fit in nicely. - 22:02:12 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:TIM- Your killing it! - 23:14:06 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene...:NAPOLEON- What are you, a reincarnation, no doubt! This discussion is going to the dogwoods! - 23:17:17 on 2 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE..not you too! Anyway, this next post is yet another article just for you. I am sure you will get a laugh out of it, as did I. Afterall, we have no god to answer to! - 0:49:30 on 3 Aug 98 GMT

Diana the sinner 'deserved to burn in hell' - Robert Jobson - International Express :(for the uninitiated, the International Express is a weekly paper from the U.K.): Princess Diana should be banished to hell because of her affair with Dodi Fayed, according to an outrageous article by a theologian. Philip Nobile, an academic and journalist, says Diana's good works count for little "in the Christian scheme of things" because she was "fornicating" before her death. The article in Prospect magazine is bound to infuriate Diana's fans, many of whom believe she should be remembered as a saint not a sinner. Nobile - an ex-columnist for the National Catholic Reporter who has a pontifical degree - says "Diana's good works may have been very good, but her trespasses, large and small, surely barred St. Peter's gate, at least temporarily. Princess Diana's soul was in dire peril of damnation on the evening of August 30, assuming that she and Emad 'Dodi' Fayed had committed unrepented fornication ('carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman') during their romantic holiday in France." Nobile, who caused controversy in the U.S. when he said Alex Haley's bestseller Roots was "a pack of lies", claims Diana may have been "saved" had she "begged God's forgiveness after the crash". The fact that she most probably never regained consciousness is ignored. He also says that if she had begged forgiveness she would have been cast into the "cleansing fires" of pergatory to expiate her sins before ascending to heaven. He concludes "Hell looms as the most plausible spot for the Princess's soul. The idea of Diana in hell seems cruel and repellent in human terms, although it comfortably suits the divine." - 1:01:18 on 3 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- If there were such places as heaven or hell and one did continue on in some type of form, I can't imagine why anyone would want to spend eternity praising some egotistical god so heaven would be out for me. Taking this fantasy a little further, Dianner (as my dad would have called her LOL) and Doddie are likely in Stan's domain have one hell of a time. They're likely having a few drinks, fornicating, playing a few tables, fornicating, dirty dancing, fornicating and fornicating, fornicating, fornicating. Hell! Now that's my kind of fantasy! BTW, what do your mean, me too? What I meant was, that meteorites may have contained the molecules, nothing even close to the N's. - 3:17:44 on 3 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE...I said "not you too" because you stated that this page is going to the "dogwoods". BTW, sex on the brain tonight? (partner been on the road too long? ;) - 3:24:53 on 3 Aug 98 GMT

Grant: As you've been gone: (delayed response to a Friday query):--CARL--Yes, I follow the goings-on of those who discount science when it suits them. Michael Behe, though educated and articulate, still follows the standard religionist practices of thinking of those who accept evolution even provisionally as followers of the "religion" of evolution (He refers to evolutionists as "believers in Darwinism,) dividing evolution into "micro" and "macro" so as to be able to conveniently dismiss those concepts not easily demonstrable, stating that those scientists who accept evolution do so blindly "on authority" and for selfish interests, etc. He considers it to be proven scientific fact (microbiology) that there is intelligent design in the universe because of the old standard bombadier beetle, complexity of the eye, etc examples. It's the old "It's too complex to have happened by chance" routine. He fails to consider that a signifigant attribute of ignorance is that we likely don't know what it is we don't know, and that even if evolution turned out to be a faulty theory, theism is not bolstered, not being a default position by any means and still requiring some form of evidence. To me it is an incongruous position of dismissing direct physical evidence for the sake of arbitrary preconceptions. They don't seem to ever acknowledge that even were there an intelligent designer of the universe it is a long jump from there to xtianity, and one with many problems. I think it's telling that he only contests those parts of science that are problematic to his religious beliefs and accepts the rest. Gosh, this isn't a rant is it? - 4:50:57 on 3 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:GRANT- One could say he is Gishing, lol! Good post! - 14:13:33 on 3 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- Naaa! That was just a trip down memory lane. - 14:15:04 on 3 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:--GRANT--Like James Randi said--a believer is like an unsinkable rubber duck - 15:05:09 on 3 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Of the Diana thing, that sort of xtian view must be has to be the only point of view they could hold to and still "believe" in the godthing of their choosing. That kind of godthing is what the old Jews thought and crafted it to be and the xtian, as we kno'they lack certain good creative ways, it still serves them just as well as the story book version written by the savage precivilised jew and ignorant early xtian types. - 17:51:30 on 3 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: When I saw your referral I thot the WCS site was up and runnin'again, it is not. Where else did you find that piece? - 18:22:17 on 3 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:GRANT: I regularly hold it sufficiently reasonable to believe that an individual should get out and expose themselves to the experiences of any and all environments, in order to know for themselves some things, this last point depends of course on their "mind" and whatever its wide range capabilities may be. RTL and the quack, well their capabilities seem to be either severly limited or their experience of things is severly limited. Why do I think this or how can I think either may be possible? They've minds and if its as mine and maybe yours too, it knows of such a small bit of the all. Instead they and other religious believers, they could be described as cavemen looking out of their caves, perhaps at night and maybe, wondering about a full moon. - 19:29:53 on 3 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..would you believe I found that site while doing some researching of my family ties...still haven't figured out the connection.. - 20:31:30 on 3 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: That is unbelievable stuff. Did you see and follow the site to "The Burning Times"? That was on some PBS like station some time awhile back and it had me shaking my head. These visiting xtians, obviously they do not know about what they "choose" to say they believe in. One of the better accounts of that feeble way o'thinking was said best by GRANT when he inscribes in the third to last sentence about the opinion of an intelligent design and how an I.Design theory is still a long way from xtianity, lets say it is billions and billions of years away, a long long way from that idea. - 20:59:23 on 3 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL...I had the same reaction from that site, shaking my head, not in disbelief but more in despair. The site about xtian values is a page right out of RTL's book of hatred and bigotry. Someone should be made to atone....but that's another argument, isn't it? - 21:43:42 on 3 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: The simple mind- preferred or a retarded one, these are the things the stuff of folks like RTL,et.al., like most of all, why? Because they know it takes too much time for the learning process to finally have form and content, so they pick an easy, outrageous and the most incredible point of view possible for those simple minds. Truth and facts relevant to the functions of this or such states of mind, here may be the only point of their neural-electrochemical life when they act on what it relates to their "mind". They act/choose to deny what it informs them and, well they 'opt' for belief. Once they so choose what is it? Is it fact, sorta, is it truth sorta, is it real, sorta- all this, from a particular point of view. Who was that pseudonym that wrote that "anger" was the atheistic inspiration(gods breath) or m.o. for this site? That person clearly does not perhaps cannot understand it was only 'thought' process, but not a visceral anger. - 22:13:35 on 3 Aug 98 GMT

Adam GIRLY GOD ***** :Why is god such a candy-pants loser? Hey god, YOU SUCK! If I sound pissed over here, page denizens, it is because someone stole my book of Seussisms from the personal reference library I maintain on my desk in the newsroom. Obviously, that was a quick guide to the TRUE gospel, in contrast to this christian bullshit we constantly are exposed to, and offered such divine wisdom by which I live my life. I'm sure the good Doctor is a merciful Doctor, but I sure hopes he brings down the full Grinch-like wrath on the sinner who would scarf the scripture, purloin the prophesy, lift the liturgy and grab the gospel. Yea, I still have Seuss in my heart, and follow the teachings of Sam and the Cat, so I will not ever be Lost, even if my Verses are. - 22:48:20 on 3 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->IAMADAMIAM..sorry to break this to you, but THERE IS A GOD!!! And obviously a girly one at that because god finally made the right choice in bringing her wrath upon the asshole Ed Sprague. He heard the west is the best, and in my opinion that is true where he is concerned. No more 20 error at mid-season players for my team. Thank God, wherever she is! - 23:07:26 on 3 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:ALL. Using the same arguments for the existence of an intelligent designer, it is obvious that there must be a super-intelligent designer who designed the designer, and so on ad infinitum, or should I say ad nauseum? While you're pondering this, I'll be outside looking for some baseball sized rocks. I'm going with some christian friends down the street to stone a non-virgin in front of her father's house, as instructed in the bible. She married this guy, who wanted to get married so he would no longer have to go looking for sex. When he saw she wasn't a virgin he turned her in. Of course he wasn't a virgin either, but that's OK because he's a man. These christians really know howto have fun. - 23:44:24 on 3 Aug 98 GMT

Grant: From David C. at news.soc.atheism:Bacon is the most irresistibly delicious food known to man and bacon is made from pigs. As flesh that tasty is clearly a major evolutionary disadvantage, pigs must have been created by God, therefore God must exist. - 3:37:37 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

Grant:ADAM-- I hope the tragic loss of the quick guide to the TRUE gospel doesn't cost you your confidence. Someone still needs to mop the floor. - 3:40:01 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

Rob (Time for a little gibbon take?):MARLENE: No, I mean the McDonalds here in Beijing is awful -it's driving me up the wall (But shouldn't that be Chow Chow Mein?). Next stop the Holy Mountain -6000 steps (I haven't got a prayer). Until the next stop at civilisation... - 11:23:22 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

Russ T Pipes:Anyone heard of Pauline Hanson??? - 14:21:27 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:RUSTY: P.Hanson? Who wants to know? - 15:21:04 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: I just unloaded a thought or two at another site regarding what I attempted to portray as an image of political extremism. K.Starr = the beginning of another mccartheism, BC = just a man and citisen o'the USA. Here we contest another kind of extreme element, religious belief. - 17:16:37 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene..damn lawyers (sorry Adam):CARL- Isn't this Clinton thing a huge waste of the taxpayers money? It's pretty bad when the taxpayers have to foot a bill to make Starr rich when many can't afford food on their table. I think it's got to be the most stupid thing going on in America today. I just hope that in the future that something so trivial doesn't cost me money in Canada. - 17:23:27 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: I suppose that now and then a body politic has to cleanse itself so incidents as the mccarthy thing or crystahl nacht, well they serve a purpose. K.Starr must be like the medicine? And incidentally, some folks are gettin'into the fed treasury, as you say, so the longer "they" can prolong this inquirey the better for "them". - 17:45:24 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

Joette...always politically correct:-->In defense of Ken Starr...don't shoot the messenger...he was picked by Janet Reno to do the job he is doing. This is not something he chose to do for his own fame and glory. If someone has a complaint about the issue, it should be addressed to Ms. Reno. - 19:33:02 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: R U tryin'to say, actually, that J.Reno was gettin'it from K.Starr? - 19:52:50 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

Steven:JOETTE<<>>I'm not sure Janet or Ken are sparkling white as far as their politics go. Ken is making a name for himself, and getting rich in the process. This whole thing is absolutly disgusting. I can not believe the American public is paying for this joke. The majority of people don't give a rat's ass if Clinton screwed her or not, or whether he lied or not. The only people complaining are the reactionary, conservative christian republicans. They have been on the witch hunt for 4 yrs. It is amazing how angry conservatives get about Clinton screwing his inturn, but didn't bat an eye with the Iran-Contra affair. I am not a big Clinton fan, but he has certainly done as good a job as any other president that has been in office, at least in my lifetime. Let me see, we have Nixon, Carter, Reagen, Bush, Clinton. There are four rocket scientists for ya, NOT. I wish we could use these silly computers that we so frequently use and abuse, to allow the American public to vote on subjects such as this. Well, I shall climb off my small soap box now. - 19:54:01 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->ALL..hey, I'm not even an American, so the politics don't affect me one way or t'other. However, I was only stating a fact. Do we know that Ken Starr is longating the procedures for his own gain? Or is it just the judicial process moving slowly? - 20:27:28 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

Pam***:to Naploeon...EllA,EllA,EllA there are 3 different degrees to which we may allow our logic or semantics to embrace the idea of necessity. One is: (1) Nec '9>5', (2) Nec (Sturm's theorem), (3) Nec 'Napoleon escaped from 'Elba'. Now secondly in the form of a statement operator, tHERE is now bUT a logical operator 'nec', which attaches to statements themselves in the manner of the negation sign. This usage, (1) and (3) would be rENDERED rather as: (4) nec (9>5) and (5) nec (Napoleon escaped from Elba that psi* of EllA. In the gravest third, tHERE is an extension of the second degree, and goes beyond it allowing the attachment of 'nec' noy only to statements but also to open sentences, such as 'x>5', preparatory to the ultimate attachment of quantifiers: (6) (x) nec (x>5), (7) (bACKWARDS EllA) nec (x>5), (x[x=9. sYMBOL nec (x> 5)]. tHERE are logical and philosophical sIGNIFICANCE of theses 3 degrees of acceptance of the device of necessity... Now quotation is the referentially opaque context par excellcence eQUILIBRIUM. Intuitively, what occurs inside a referentially opague context may be looked upon as an orthographic accident, WITHOUT LOGICAL STATUS, like the occurrence of 'CAT' in 'cattle'... Now the criterion of Frenge in referential occurrence of substitutivity underlay the developing notion of referential opacity. bUT there is a more fundamental form of the law of substitutivity of identity, which involves no constant terms of singular bUT quantification variables --> tHis law is independent of any theory of singular terms, and cannot be properly challenged. For to cHALLENGE it were simply to use the sign '=' in some unaccustomed way IRRELEVANT to our inquiry bUT not to the Cariot... Semantical predicate necessity rEFLECTS a non-Aristotelian necessity view--. necessity resides in the way we SAY things and not in the things we talk about. Necessity as operator statement is capable of BEING reconstrued in terms of necessity semantical predicate; iT makes for an excessive idle eLABORATION of iterated modality laws, and iT tEMPTS, tEMPTS, tEMPTS jOHN Pankow to a final plunge into qualified modality. tHIS last complicates the logic of singular terms; WORSE, iT leads us back into the physical forest jungle-pillar of Aristotelian eSSENTIALISM...nAPOLEON, nAPOLEON, nAPOLEOM (EllA) never, never, never try to tEMPT a trained Druid of 20 years with your monkey shines for I have finally eRASED your psi* in the three logical proof above as I wIL myself back to Powers Epitaph of rUST bag pipes and you are wILLED back into the 3 grades of model involvement necessity of the wRITTEN foot. - 21:13:22 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

Pam:of course the door of rEMAINING eQUATING ePITAPHS must be protected in close - 21:19:25 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

Pam:in due time the cat who labeled iTSELF -rUSS T Pipes... or to tHAT monkey of psi* it called itself in the url proof... my Badb wILLED to the Powers of Tim - 21:23:51 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:PAM. What happened to warp that fine mind of yours. Too much study? A broken love affair? A personal tragedy? Please see a psychiatrist. There's still hope for you. - 23:08:39 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

Napoleon Boneaparte, Emperor of France:PAM. Why don't you come join us? I spoke to Julius Caesar and Jesus again and they think you'll like it here. I also spoke to to Empress Catherine and she suggested that since Josephine was dead you and I could get married. That would make you an empress too. She also said you would like the Ladies' room. It's much bettr than her old one and the toilet paper is fantastic. The attendants are very nice here and the food is good. I'm sure you'd fit in here very nicely. I can tell by your writing. - 23:19:50 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

ADAM Impeach Steven! ****:Let's get this straight. Nobody would've known jacj shit about Lewinsky had she not been placed on a witness list in the Paula Jones civil suit against Clinton. In that suit, he is charged with acts that constitute criminal offenses. The allegation with regard to Lewinsky for the purposes of the Jones case is that Clinton conspired with other witnesses to commit perjury, and suborned perjury—more crimes. You or I would be in deep shit for any such acts. Having said that, I am sorry that it is THIS matter that has gotten top press and play in the courts (Clinton, rather than compromising on giving evidence to the other breanches, which Presidents traditionally have done rather than force the courts to define specific constitutional privileges for the executive brach, has simply outright stonewalled, sending his attorneys—at taxpayer expense—to litigate creative theories of privilege against Starr's team. He has lost 18 of 20 rounds in the courts with Starr, but this futile and damaging litigation has served to drag the entire investigation out for many many months.) I would have preferred the justice system to get a better accounting on Filegate, in which the administration violated the most sacred protections of individual liberty to compile dirt on hundreds of "enemies", on on the Asian campaign finance scandal, which entailed acts potentially bordering on treason, and for which Reno refuses to appoint a special prosecutor, despite the advice of Louis Freeh and Mr. Labelle, her hand-picked AG on this matter, that SHE HAS NO CHOICE BUT TO DO SO UNDER THE LAW. There has never been an administration that has so frequently and fragrantly violated the law. All that is aside from Mr. Clintons pattern of harassment and intimidation of women. Yada, yada, the economy's good, so who gives a fuck? We already know that the general public is a sea of morons, for most of its members believe in god. If preposterous mythological belief is the overwhelming norm, why should we expect folks to be any more saavy with regard to politics, the government and law? - 23:23:39 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

ADAM Erratum ©©©©©:Aside from other typos above, that shoud be "jack" and "savvy", and "Clintons" should have had an apostrophe. Thousand Pair of Dons. - 23:26:58 on 4 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->ADAM..now it's time for me to climb on the soapbox. It causes me great angst when informed that "the general public is a sea of morons". Not necessarily true when it comes to politics and the law. Unfortunately, the majority don't possess the amount of pecunia required to make themselves heard, and known. Lots of us are shining stars, keeping our elected officials on their toes. So, knock off the generalizations or I'll kick your assch! - 0:24:49 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->ADAM..changed my mind about the sea of morons...I just watched 5 minutes of Jerry Springer. Need I say more? - 2:46:18 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

PAM***:She knew me. It was true, what she said. I had had my eyes on the ground all this while; now I looked at her, trying to realise that I should never see her again. It was impossible. There was that intense beauty, that shadowlessness that was like translucence. And there was her voice. It was impossible to understand that I was never to see her again, never to hear her vOICE, after this. She was silent for a long time and I said nothing -- nothing at all. It was the thought of her making Fox's end; of her sitting as Fox had sat, hopelessly, lifelessly, like a man waiting at the end of the world. At last she said: "There is no hope. We have to go our ways; you yours, I mine. And then if you will -- if you cannot forget -- you may remember that I cared; that, for a moment, in between two breaths, I thought of ... of failing. That is all I can do ... for your sake." That silenced me. Even if I could have spoken to any purpose, I would have held my tOUNGE now. I had not looked at her; but stood with my eyes averted, very conscious of her standing before me; of her great beauty, of her great glory. After a long time I went away. I never saw her again. I never saw any one of them all again. Fox was dead and Churchill I have never had the heart to face. That was the end of all that part of my life. It passed away and left me only a consciousness of weakness and ... and regrets. She rEMAINS. One recognises her hand in the trend of events. Well, it is not a very gay world. Gurnard, they say, is the type of the age -- of its spirit. And they say that I, the Granger of Etchingham, am not on terms with my brother-in-law...In the Assuming trade three separate and independent cults are transacting business. Two of these cults are known as the Shakespearites and the Baconians, and I am the other one -- the Brontosaurian. The Shakespearite knows that Shakespeare wrote Shakespeare's Works; the Baconian knows that Francis Bacon wrote them; the Brontosaurian doesn't really know which of them did it, but is quite composedly and contentedly sure that Shakespeare didn't, and strongly suspects that Bacon did. We all have to do a good deal of assuming, but I am fairly certain that in every case I can call to mind the Baconian assumers have come out ahead of the Shakespearites. Both parties handle the same materials, but the Baconians seem to me to get much more reasonable and rational and persuasive results out of them than is the case with the Shakespearites. The Shakespearite conducts his assuming upon a definite principle, an unchanging and immutable law -- which is: 2 and 8 and 7 and 14, added together, make 165. I believe this to be an error. No matter, you cannot get a habit-sodden Shakespearite to cipher-up his materials upon any other basis. With the Baconian it is different. If you place before him the above figures and set him to adding them up, he will never in any case get more than 45 out of them, and in nine cases out of ten he wIL... Let me try to illustrate the two systems in a simple and homely way calculated to bring the idea within the grasp of the ignorant and unintelligent. We will suppose a case: take a lap-bred, house-fed, uneducated, inexperienced kitten; take a rugged old Tom that's scarred from stem to rudder-post with the memorials of strenuous experience, and is so cultured, so educated, so limitlessly erudite that one may say of him "all cat-knowledge is his province"; also, take a mouse. Lock the three up in a holeless, crackless, exitless prison-cell. Wait half an hour, then open the cell, introduce a Shakespearite and a Baconian, and let them cipher and assume. The mouse is missing: the question to be decided is, where is it? You can guess both verdicts beforehand. One verdict will say the kitten contains the mouse; the other will as certainly say the mouse is in the tomcat... The Shakespearite will Reason like this -- (that is not my word, it is his). He will say the kitten may have been attending school when nobody was noticing; therefore we are warranted in assuming that it did so; also, it could have been training in a court-clerk's office when no one was noticing; since that could have happened, we are justified in assuming that it did happen; it could have studied catology in a garret when no one was noticing -- therefore it did; it could have attended cat-assizes on the shed-roof nights, for recreation, when no one was noticing, and harvested a knowledge of cat court-forms and cat lawyer-talk in that way: it could have done it, therefore without a doubt it did; it could have gone soldiering with a war-tribe when no one was noticing, and learned soldier-wiles and soldier-ways, and what to do with a mouse when opportunity offers; the plain inference, therefore is, that that is what it did. Since all these manifold things could have occurred, we have every right to believe they did occur. These patiently and painstakingly accumulated vast acquirements and competences needed but one thing more -- opportunity -- to convert themselves into triumphant action. The opportunity came, we have the result; beyond shadow of question the mouse is in the kitten. It is proper to remark that when we of the three cults plant a "We think we may assume," we expect it, under careful watering and fertilizing and tending, to grow up into a strong and hardy and weather-defying "there isn't a shadow of a doubt" at last -- and it usually happens. We know what the Baconian's verdict would be: "There is not a rag of evidence that the kitten has had any training, any education, any experience qualifying it for the present occasion, or is indeed equipped for any achievement above lifting such unclaimed milk as comes its way; but there is abundant evidence -- unassailable proof, in fact -- that the other animal is equipped, to the last detail, with every qualification necessary for the event. Without shadow of doubt the tomcat contains the mouse..." The Lady's Dressing Room Five hours, (and who can do it less in?) By haughty Celia spent in dressing;The goddess from her chamber issues, Arrayed in lace, brocades, and tissues. Strephon, who found the room was void And Betty otherwise employed, Stole in and took a strict survey Of all the litter as it lay; Whereof, to make the matter clear,An inventory follows here. And first a dirty smock appeared,Beneath the arm-pits well besmeared. Strephon, the rogue, displayed it wide And turned it round on every side. On such a point few words are best,And Strephon bids us guess the rest; And swears how damnably the men lie In calling Celia sweet and cleanly. Now listen while he next produces The various combs for various uses, Filled up with dirt so closely fixt,No brush could force a way betwixt. A paste of composition rare,Sweat, dandruff, powder, lead and hair; A forehead cloth with oil upon't To smooth the wrinkles on her front. Here alum flower to stop the steams Exhaled from sour unsavory streams; There night-gloves made of Tripsy's hide,Bequeath'd by Tripsy when she died, With puppy water, beauty's help,Distilled from Tripsy's darling whelp; Here gallypots and vials placed,Some filled with washes, some with paste, Some with pomatum, paints and slops,And ointments good for scabby chops. Hard by a filthy basin stands,Fouled with the scouring of her hands; The basin takes whatever comes,The scrapings of her teeth and gums, A nasty compound of all hues,For here she spits, and here she spews. But oh! it turned poor Strephon's bowels,When he beheld and smelt the towels, Begummed, besmattered, and beslimed With dirt, and sweat, and ear-wax grimed. No object Strephon's eye escapes:Here petticoats in frowzy heaps; Nor be the handkerchiefs forgot All varnished o'er with snuff and snot. The stockings, why should I expose,Stained with the marks of stinking toes; Or greasy coifs and pinners reeking,Which Celia slept at least a week in? A pair of tweezers next he found To pluck her brows in arches round, Or hairs that sink the forehead low,Or on her chin like bristles grow. The virtues we must not let pass,Of Celia's magnifying glass. When frighted Strephon cast his eye on't It shewed the visage of a giant. A glass that can to sight disclose The smallest worm in Celia's nose, And faithfully direct her nail To squeeze it out from head to tail; (For catch it nicely by the head,It must come out alive or dead.) Why Strephon will you tell the rest?And must you needs describe the chest? That careless wench! no creature warn her To move it out from yonder corner; But leave it standing full in sight For you to exercise your spite. In vain, the workman shewed his wit With rings and hinges counterfeit To make it seem in this disguise A cabinet to vulgar eyes; For Strephon ventured to look in,Resolved to go through thick and thin; He lifts the lid, there needs no more:He smelt it all the time before. As from within Pandora's box,When Epimetheus oped the locks, A sudden universal crew Of humane evils upwards flew, He still was comforted to findThat Hope at last remained behind; So Strephon lifting up the lid To view what in the chest was hid, The vapours flew from out the vent.But Strephon cautious never meant The bottom of the pan to grope And foul his hands in search of Hope. O never may such vile machine Be once in Celia's chamber seen! O may she better learn to keep"Those secrets of the hoary deep"! As mutton cutlets, prime of meat,Which, though with art you salt and beat As laws of cookery require And toast them at the clearest fire, If from adown the hopeful chops The fat upon the cinder drops, To stinking smoke it turns the flame Poisoning the flesh from whence it came; And up exhales a greasy stench For which you curse the careless wench; So things which must not be exprest,When plumpt into the reeking chest, Send up an excremental smell To taint the parts from whence they fell, The petticoats and gown perfume,Which waft a stink round every room. Thus finishing his grand survey,Disgusted Strephon stole away Repeating in his amorous fits,Oh! Celia, Celia, Celia shits! But vengeance, Goddess never sleeping, Soon punished Strephon for his peeping:His foul Imagination links Each dame he see with all her stinks;And, if unsavory odors fly, Conceives a lady standing by.All women his description fits, And both ideas jump like wits By vicious fancy coupled fast, And still appearing in contrast. I pity wretched Strephon blind To all the charms of female kind.Should I the Queen of Love refuse Because she rose from stinking ooze?To him that looks behind the scene Satira's but some pocky queen.When Celia in her glory shows, If Strephon would but stop his nose(Who now so impiously blasphemes Her ointments, daubs, and paints and creams,Her washes, slops, and every clout With which he makes so foul a rout),He soon would learn to think like me And bless his ravished sight to see The Heart of the Wood MY hope and my love, we will go for a while into the wood, scattering the dew, where we will see the trout, we will see the blackbird on its nest; the deer and the buck calling, the little bird that is sweetest singing on the branches; the cuckoo on the top of the fresh green; and death will never come near us for ever in the sweet wood. Such order from confusion sprung, Such gaudy tulips raised from dung... cONRAD, tWAIN, sWIFT in the skippy skip... wraped in Kiltarian poetry... Anna Laetitia Barbauld Packed a quixotic cargo: She put morals in Coleridge's "Rime"And bubbles in her own "Washing-Time." Mary Tighe Was often quite high.She was equally happy as "Psyche" Or dancing around in one Nike.It doesn't take a Yalie To figure out Joanna Baillie.She had her own Theory of the Passions Which she dispensed in ladylike rations the wRITTEN...Male ferrets are called 'hobs', intact female ferrets are called 'jills' and neutered females are called 'sprites.' : With metallic properties, a generalization of Segal's theorem on nonlinear perturbations of semigroups is proven. The Yang-Mills equations in a spatially bounded subset of the Minkowski space are studied under the assumption of temporal gauge. It is shown that, locally in time, the Cauchy problem for these equations is uniquely solvable if the metallic boundary conditions are imposed. An a'priori estimate of the second Sobolev norm of a 1-form is given. I confess that I feel a bit uneasy hearing "could" described as having indicative vs. subjunctive senses. For one thing, I take this mood distinction, at least as reflected in English, to involve subcategorization by some higher predicate (e.g. 'demand that he leave') or other other operator taking scope over it (e.g. 'if she were to leave')--note that these are two different notions, or realizations, of 'subjunctive'. In any case, subjunctive is a grammatical category and does not correspond to a constant 'sense'. I would be more comfortable with the standard terminology of modality, in which 'could' would be described as having an epistemic sense or use (He could be there now, for all I know), a root meaning as the past of 'can' (She could run a 4 minute mile in her younger days) that expresses potentiality or physical possibility, and a deontic meaning (as in the sequence of tense example She said that you could come). These understandings (i.e. senses or uses, depending on the analysis) thus correspond respectively to 'it is possible that...', 'it was possible for...' or 'NP was able to...', and 'it was permitted for...'/'NP was permitted to'. That-all aside, my own informant work on double modal dialects ... Specifically, may/might can occur ONLY as the FIRST modal in a sequence, and always with the epistemic meaning 'maybe', 'it is possible that'. On the other hand, can/could ONLY occurred as the LAST modal in a sequence, and always with a root or deontic meaning involving ability or permission. The maximum number of modals in attested sequences was tHREE, and 'should' and 'wIL' were found in addition to the others. Thus, He'll can come. 'He will be able to come' You might should come. 'Perhaps you should come' You might could be right. and so on. It's nice to know these constructions have roots in the sod of the old country tREE... Yes you can tell by my wRITING bUT not of my oRAL tongue with three sticks of Rowen in skipping binding outlined above... slipping through the thinking knot pulling back the veil are monkeys, hidden tHERE are monkeys more someone spills a jar of honey, sticky monkeys crawl the floor, oh i 'see' another moon over me...THE STORY: May "Mayday" Parker has a problem. Not only did she recently learn that her father was the original Spider-Man, but her own arachnid-based powers have begun to emerge. So what does she do now?! Should May continue the family "business" or concentrate on high school? Peter and Mary Jane have made their feelings clear, but May’s a teenager with a mind of her own! And to make matters worse, she could be her dad’s only hope when Pete is targeted by the all-new super-villain named Mr. Nobody a gun-toting teleporter who reports to a certain portly (and familiar) crime boss!!! I saw a cat loin he was standing alone with a mousypole in a jar...tHEY hold no quarter and ask no quarter...ain't no time to pack my crow, my wRITTEN foot is outdide the domain, got a date, can't be late for the LITH rETURN...In the second chapter, for example, our protagonist throws through the window a "poodle in a powder blue dog sweater" - but in the proofs this had been changed to a dog in a bullet-proof dog sweater. Now, I suppose I can imagine a society in which it would be worth the trouble and expense to outfit dogs with such protection, but the society in this book was certainly not it... sHE awoke from a dream , her lips were moving in the air, speak to me in many voices make them all sound like one---rEVEAL to me the unknown tOUNGE ... Not to my displeasure, An Epitaph in Rust disappeared pretty quickly. It only sold about 17,000 copies, which is damn poor for a paperback, and I never saw one review of it, not even in a fanzine. And on the few occasions in the years since when I've been called upon to sign a copy, I have generally written in, too, a caution against actually reading the thing.I mentioned the small kick of showing off to bookstore clerks with one's newly-released book; that should be just a prelude to showing off to all one's friends by forcing copies on them, and signing flyleaves with deceptively modest-sounding inscriptions. In the case of the Laser edition of Epitaph in Rust, that younger Tim Powers was never able to work up the proper degree of fatuous pride to do that. So I'm very happy now, twelve years later, to be able to do his belated showing off for him. I promise to try to do it WITH A STRAIGHT FACE in the .... skippy skip... skippy skip... skippy skip!!! good-bye............................................................good-bye..............................................good-bye.............................................. - 4:24:03 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

Russ T Pipes.........:Pauline Hanson wants a complete de-chocolatification of Australia.....Coming up to 6 billion world population-----what better to start the erradication with??????? - 12:32:11 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

Grant:RUSS-- You. - 12:38:27 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

Grant:RUSS--: You. How interesting. - 12:47:17 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

Grant (2nd post not me):RUSS-- Have you the stones to justify your racism, even under an alias? Didn't think so. - 13:22:13 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:RUSTY: Oh! Some time back, 2 3 mo's, I read about someone in Aussieland that wanted to do a manifest destiny thing agin'the natives or some group o'people. I didn't get back to that report but that person was running for some public office but was using, again some group of people, as a way to get voter attention. Its about like the nat'l legislator here, tryin'to pick on the gay thing, as one observer said, to maintain the current ruling partys'place of 'rule'. Perhaps I will check your newspaper sites again. I can not begin to understand people as that P.Hanson, or RTL, or PAM, who seem to get a kick outta'bein'wierd. But some have said I'm wierd so - 14:27:35 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:R.T.PIPES: Well, it looks as tho'Pauline Hnason has her fair share of voters, that, well, do they think along the lines proposed by P.Hanson? Seems that P.Hanson wanted to ban non-white visitors to australia place aborigine children in fine xtian homes for a proper rearing process, are these assorted perversions and immoral inhuman things true? - 15:52:49 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

Steven :RON<<>>or whom ever admins this board. Could you puuuullllleeeeaaase warn SPAM, I mean PAM to quit the fucking SPAM! I do not believe in censorship of any kind, but the spam that is hitting this board by one individual is annoying and serves absolutly no purpose. There is no reason why anyone should have to scroll down through two or three pages of crap. Anyway, my two cents - 15:53:37 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

EXATHEIST:I've talked with a lot of atheists, and none of them are willing to believe that I am an exatheist who now believes in God. They all say that such a person does not exist. This is another example of the madness of atheism: there are certain things it just refuses to believe exists. - 17:16:17 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:RUSS: Those were several points I recall of that P.Hanson the australian politico. Where do you stand in relation to P.Hanson? Are you an Australian? Does P.Hanson use the limited religious 'believer',(I can't say such people are necessarily thinkers here) to boost her inharmonious ways? How old is this person? Where was P.Hanson educated? - 17:20:12 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:Exatheist: Madness? How does a theist explain the act of creation? Did it happen over six days? What is a day and how does a theist know that day thing? Was all created in that day thing, or was all created at once? Was all created by the "hand" of a theists godthing or by the mere utterance of a word? What was the "word" the godthing uttered for that creation to happen? Does a theist know that word? And if yes, how do they know so? Who suffers the madness here? - 17:26:11 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

Adam KNEE-JERK JO? ****:You sea what you wanna sea, I'll sea sick **** Did you even heed that I called the public a sea of morons because they are theists? Wouldn't that necessarily make you one of us scattered islets in the archipelago of reason? Step off, sister! - 17:33:32 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

Adam ALL MY EXES MAKE SUCH NEXES **** :Exatheist: We are by no means a unified bloc on all issues. I don't know why any of the denizens of this page would doubt your status as an ex-atheist, although I think I speak for most, if not all, when I diparage your devolution from the arena of reason to the "realm" of childish and primitive mythological beliefs. - 17:40:43 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:Exatheist1: Ever hear o'noahs'ark? Ever hear of the chaldean assyrian myths? Ever hear or see the egyptian tales of a trinity? Ever hear it said that when the pyramids were being constructed an arab jew people thing did not yet exist? Ever hear or read the early xtian tales of resistance to geocentrism? Ever heard about the early xtian patriarchs resistance to the ideas of money at interest? Ever hear of the theodosian edicts? Ever read the accounts of early xtian patriarchs that resisted even the lightening rod? If yes, then who was and is yet mad to take in such a godthing, and by the way, these are just examples for the same seems to hold true for relgion in general as far as I can see. Are the atheist mad truely the mad ones? - 18:15:56 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:--EXATHEIST--Of course someone could be an athesi and then become a theist. There are so many brands of atheism, many of which are based on irrational beliefs, so the jump from one set of irrational beliefs to another is not only plausible--it's extremely likely. There are however some philosophies that are explicitly atheisy such as objectivism, and I would find it extremely unlikely for an objectivist to revert to theism, as his innate respect fro reason would have to be dismantled throughout his entire cognitive framework--consciously. - 18:19:03 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:PAM. Why don't you take up "Napoleon's" offer. Just think what you could do as empress of a mental institution. Just think how you could impress the psychiatrists with your erudition. You could even create a new religion with yourself as goddess! Limitless opportunities. Go, girl, go!! - 20:45:51 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:EXATHEIST. While it is possible for an atheist to change his belief, I doubt that you fit the bill. I think you are a christian posing as such. I draw that conclusion from your remarks about "the madness of atheism" and "there are certain things it just refuses to believe exists." It is typical of certain types of believers to lie and distort facts to defend their beliefs. I believe you are one of them, hiding, as usual, behind the cloak of anonymity. - 21:03:44 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

EXATHEIST:All my former friends know I was a dedicated atheist. But when I turned away from atheism, I lost all my friends. They think I have committed the greatest crime in the world by tuning my back on atheism. At first, their rejection of me hurt me deeply. I mean, people I have known closely for years now gnash their teeth at me. Formerly, I didn't know that atheists could be so cruel. I thought we were very nice people. But when I became a Christian, I began to feel the hot hatred of atheism towards me. I was just as much an atheist as any of you are - maybe more dedicated. - 21:25:26 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

Pam:to the Exatheist A simple continued fraction = a compact abbreviated Notation... Louville Rational Constant shows where x is no longer around the rational numbers--> the three regimes are r(x)= 1 x is a rational, r(x)= 2 x is algebraic irrational, and r(x)>_ 2 x is a transcedental... Lagrange proved any quadratic irrational contains a continued fraction which 'skips' after some point or the way you post. - 21:56:14 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:Exatheist: If and when you were an atheist, and if you were an informed atheist (note my above posts to you) then you must recall that hatred, historical and contemporary, that, well is the xtian thing. P'SAM has posted some very good illustrative biblical examples of that good ol'fashioned xtian hatred. One of the best examples I know of that hatred concerns your xtian notion of the trinity, the early xtian patriarchs found that idea in egypt, they used it to differentiate their religous efforts from the jewish thing because of the anti-semitism of the times. Does that sound like a good thing or a god thing to you? - 22:08:18 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

Pam:to the Exatheist... In general of the Hurwitz's irrational theorem, even bounds tighter than the form can be obtained for the best rational approximation for every number of irrational arbitrary numbered symbol...The Lagrange numbers get steadily 'bigger' for each 'bad' set of excluded irrational numbers... Might I add Napoleon's Waterloo was not nice either. - 22:20:10 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

Pam*** :Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast trilogy remain the most stylistic thing I've ever read...comparing Vance to Peake is not simple...Peake's characterisations are far superior but he dwells to far on the extreme points of those characters, whereas Vance's characters can be a touch simplistic, as if the forces occuring to them have no effect on them. Can you tell the difference between Kirth Girsen and Adam Reith? Apart from the motivation behind each man's drive, they could've been twins...as this is someone's rEVIEW right David. Never play mind games with a true Druid but the trees do not judge as you have done for many months now without logical backing... As of your continued postings, the radoiactivity of the process underlying is the natural transformation of an unstable nucleus to one which is stable. Chronologies developments involve the assumption of certain isotope proportions in a sample that are entirely the result of radioactive decay; gains or LOSSES by any other process wIL LEAD TO ERRONEOUS DATES. There are 3 natural radioactive species categories: 1 extremely long lived nuclides that have survived since element formation, 2 decayed nuclides produced by some of these primary nuclides and 3 current short-lived nuclides formed in Nature as a result of bombardment of cosmic-ray. Radiocarbon is produced in the upper atmosphere by nitrogen bombardment with neurons of cosmic ray N14 + n = C14 + H1 and rEVERTS back to nitrogen by radioactive disintergration with 5730=+_40 years of half-life. Remember those dates you gave for a certain jesus's birthday, David...MOVIES WITH CHESS SCENES OR MENTIONS CHESS : 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) A Safe Place (1971) Ace Ventura: When Nature Calls (1996) Alice in Wonderland (1933) Animal Crackers (1930) Arch of Triumph (1947) Around the World Under the Sea (1966) Assasins (1995) Batman Forever (1995) Beast Must Die, The (1974) Bishop Murder Case, The (1930) Black and White Like Day and Night (1978) Black Cat, The (1934) Black Rose, The (1950) Blade Runner (1982) Blazing Saddles (1974) Bogie: A Biography (1980) Born American Brainwashed (1961) Casablanca (1943) Cass Tamberlane (1948) Charlie Chan and the Curse of the Dragon Queen (1981) Chess Fever (1925) Chess of Life (1916) Coming Home (1978) Condemned, The (1948) Copycat (1995) Criss-Cross (1949) Dangerous Moves (1985) - won the 1985 Oscar for Best Foreign Film Deadlier Than the Male (1967) Devil Times Five (1985) Devil's Nightmare, The (1971) Dr. Blood's Coffin (1961) Embryo Entr' Acte (1924) Frankenstein: The True Story (1974) Fresh (1994) From Russia With Love (1963) (game from Spassky-Bronstein, Leningrad 1960) Funeral in Berlin (1966) Fury, The (1978) Get Out Your Handkerchiefs (1978) Ghost of Flight 401, The (1978) Glimmer Man, The (1996) God Told Me To (1976) Great Chess Movie, The Grumpier Old Men (1996) Grumpy Old Men (1993) Hackers (1995) Harum Scarum (1965) Heaven Sent (1988) Hercules in New York (1970) History of the World, Part 1 (1985) House of Frankenstein (1945) House of Whipcord, The (1974) Humanoid Woman (1980) I, Monster (1971) Independence Day (1996) Innocent Move (1993) Ivan The Terrible (1944) Killing, The (1956) Knight Moves (1992) Knights of the Roundtable (1956) Knock On Any Door (1949) La Diagonale du Fou Le Maitre des Echecs Leave Her to Heaven (1945) Les Creatures (1966) Little Rascals (1995) Lodger, The (1926) Lolita (1962) Lonely Guy, The (1984) Long Live the Queen Man With the Power, The (1977) Man Who Captured Eichmann, The (1996) Mandy (1953) Massacre at Central Hight (1976) Merry Widow, The (1934) Miracle of the Wolves, The (1924) Monkey Business (1931) Monkey Shines (1988)--- yes that's right David or EllA,EllA,EllA...So long as an organism is alive, the carbon in it is in eQUILIBRIUM with the reservoir atmosphereic, and only at the time of death of the organism does this equilibrium fail. One difficulty encountered with some samples in the incorporation of carbon old,ie., modern shell cases of some shells give dates of a few thousand years. This is not ordinarily associated with other kinds of organic materials... As I leave Peake's Gormenghast, the balance of nature rEMAINS, Rottcold closes the 'book', and this misunderstood Druid can finally move on in learning and growing with Nature!!! - 23:44:28 on 5 Aug 98 GMT

EXATHEIST:Do you know what helped spur me as an atheist? It was my friends, colleages, deceived atheist politicians I supported, college professors I knew and movie stars. I strengthened them and they strengthened me. I hated Christians; I couldn't even say or type the word. That's why I always said "xians." But I was wrong. And all of you are wrong! - 0:10:59 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

nice try David......good-bye.................................good-bye......................and good rIDDANCE Cugel, for De proportionibius proportionum = on ratio of ratios in pre-Galilean, the trees accept your thank you!!! - 0:29:40 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Joette...this shit is everywhere!:-->I was looking for the lineage of the Queen Mum, and this is what I get...sheesh. The old internet ain't what it used to be! Who would care about this particular information besides the person that made up this site? Mind boggling. - 0:48:28 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->however, I may be enticed to just go to the library for information from now on..maybe it's a conspiracy by our local libraries? - 0:49:56 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->EXATHEIST..you seem to talk just for the sake of talking. Congratulations on your conversion. We are all very proud of you. There are many, many sites for christians, so why not go talk to them? - 0:52:36 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

The Hideous Root A plumber appeared by the light of the Moon And sang like the grinding of brakes To his wife, who made answer, which, though out of tune And aesthetically full of mistakes Was sweet in his ear, for he knew what it meant She was waiting for him in their wickerwork tent. The plumber, deploying the light of the Moon Permitted his body to spring Like a leaf in the wind, like a heifer in June, Like a fish, or a ball on a string - There was joy in his heart, and the prawns in his hair Felt the wind in their scales as he leapt through the air. The leap of a plumber in tropical climes Is a sight calculated to pluck At the heart-strings of those who, ahead of the times, Know skill, when they see it, from luck - O full of abandon and zest in the sight Of a plumber spread-eagled in amorous flight. When the plumber had landed, his echoes had died Through the forest, and he was alone With his shadow, his passion, his prawns and his pride And his suitcase from Marelybone. Above him the trees with their heliotrope fruit Reflected their sheen on his tropical suit. His tropical suit, that he made long ago In his bachelor days, 'neath a tree With his needle and cotton aglint in the glow Of a sunset that sat on the sea - The suit that enriched seven months of his life In the making thereof for the eye of a wife. And a wife soon enough had landed on the scene, She had watched him one evening with thrills, His suit in the starlight was purple and green And was garnished with tassels and frills. On his shimmering sleeves there were crescents and moons And his chest was embroidered with knives, forks and spoons. His collar was seaweed dragged out of the sea All golden and shiny and wet. His hat was an elephant's ear, that could be Twisted up like a fresh serviette That is perched on the table when very clean guests Are invited to dinner with studs in their vests. Now that the very same evening (the evening she saw Him appear in his tropical suit) She had stood silhouetted against the white shore, In her had was the Hideous Root - The Root, but for which he might never have known Anything could be worse than the face of his OWN. But O it WAS worse, it was worse than a dream Of a gargoyle coiled up in a fight With itself, whom it bites, and decides that each scream Is not its by some face in the night Far worse was this Hideous Root, that she carried At the side of her face, even thought she was married And O, to the plumber, as lovely she is As a rose on the brow of a fawm. Or a dewdrop that gurgles in aqueous bliss, In tremulous light of the dawn. How gorgeous she was, he remembered that day On the sands, when he wooed her and took her away. 'But the Root,' he had murmured, 'the Root, my most sweet! Must it SHARE in our marital life?' She had smirked like a fairy and wriggled her feet Then replied, 'You must know that a wife Has her secrets, my dear, and this Root is my friend - Be patient with me, though you can't understand.' The plumber remembered the pride he had known In taking her into his arms Though she still held the Root very close to the bone Which confused the deploy of his charms But O there was pride in his promise to never Refer to the Root, though he clutch it forever. He entered the glade with a bounce of such joy That the serviette hat on his head Was blown through the air though he'd fixewd it with gloy To his ears which were lilac and red. It stuck in a tree and a bird with thick legs Jumped inside with a bang and laid thirty-three eggs. When he came to the wickerwork tent he gave cry As before (like the grinding of brakes) And peered through the wickerwork door with one eye To observe the reaction that shakes The frame of a loving and sensitive spouse When the cry of a husband vibrates through the house. But O! the Black Horror! the Sharp Disillusion! The grim realistical Fact! She was there, it is true, but was coiled in confusion And foiled by lack of his tact. She had not been prepared for his speed, nor before Had beencaught unawares when he peered through the door. No! Never before since that day of all days When he watched her against the white shore. No! Never before, since the fire of his praise Had scalded her - never before In his life had he ever had reason to doubt (O where was the Root she was never without) That horrible, desperate Ghoul of a Root, That nightmare of twitches and twists, That riot of wrinkles from skull-piece to foot With its surfeit of ankles and fists, That coiling, incurable, knobbled and scarred Monstrosity measuring nearly a yard. As he looked through the wickerwood what should he spy But his wife in a whirlpool of speed When she stopped to draw breath he could see with one eye She was very distracted indeed - She had lost her Rediculous Root and he saw That without it her beauty was never no more The Root which she held in the grip of her paw As a foil to her negative charms The Root that would heave with her every snore As it lay through the night in her arms O the qualms that now racked him, the Root being gone Made hay of his pride in a beauty now flown. For ah, in her terrible moments of rest He could see she was frightful indeed The Terrible Root that had helped to invest Her face with the bloom of her breed Was missing! And she, being glad of a mate Was searching for it at a hideous rate. The plumber was mortified, hesitant, full Of deep terror, but suddenly saw The Root on the grass 'neat the bright tree and all His confidence flowered once more He grasped it and cried to his lady within: 'Your Root, my beloved, your Root's in my fire.' At the sound, like a meteor that streams through a cloud His mate had burst out of the tent As a knife runs through the butter, she sailed witha loud And shattering sound as she went Through the wickerwork wall of their dwelling, to land By her husband who held the Great Root in his hand. SHe snatched at the Hideous Root in a wild Unladylike manner, and squeezed The hideous thing in her arms like a child, Beside her the Root by the rule Of stark relativity lowered the wood O'er the eyes of the plumber, and she was once more An ornament made for his praise The Root with its mystical powers of yore Resolved his ineligant ways And a vision of all that her beauty had been Returned to enchant the connubial scene. But now, double padlocked, the jubilant wife Of the plumber has chained to her side The Hideous Root which she guards with her life. For what can more furnish a bride With tranquility, faith and a pride in her lot Than a foil of the kind that the lady has got. And from then until now the thrice halcyon days Flow by them, the lady be-charmed With the Root at her belt while he floods her with praise In a manner ornate and unharmed And yet - at the back of his mind sometimes tirs, A dislike of That Root and that secret of hers. by Mervyn Peake - 0:58:42 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

THAT'S the Epitaph of Rust... Cugel... and farewell to all and bright blessings!!! - 1:01:04 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Adam ERIN GO METS! ¡¡¡¡¡:Jo, it's Irish night at Shea stadium. Erin go Wonderbragh! Mets up 3-2 early - 1:08:56 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Jodolt:-->ADAM..so sorry, this moron don't speak da Irish. Jays down 2-1 early. - 1:44:13 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..did you read much about Pauline Hanson? I have noted that the media have one slant of her, and she and her One Nation Party certainly have another. Someone should take her to the outback and drop her off. Her mind is definitely in the 1950's. Someone should remind her that she is probably the descendant of a British criminal. - 2:21:32 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:--EXATHEIST--Why would you have hated christians wheb you were an atheist? Your penchance for bigoty wolud certainly nake you better suited to be a christian, as I have encountered so many seething christians. Even though i would never say'all christians are bigots' as I will only makee assessments of one's character based solely on the action of each individual. However, why is it that christianity fails so miserably from preventing so many of its adherents from being raging bigotted infernos, especially when christianity has a vested interest in morality and claims itself to be the pinnacle of morality? Yet, so many christian commit what is perhaps one of the most heinously immoral acts, without even realizing it, nor admitting it--even after they are called up on it. i can go into any christian chatttroom on the net and almost immediately witness the most viscious bigotry. When I call them up on it--they never understand how their actions are bigotted, and they NEVER EVER admit their behavious as bigotted. To make matters worse, regardless of how outlandishly bigotted their actions are, and regardless of how often I identify such behavior --the other christian posters will stick up for the christian--just because he is a christian--regardless of how blatantly bigotted that christian is. If you want to be a christian--fine...but what would impress me more is seeing a christian actually be able to detect the genesis of bigotry, because so far I seem to have found far too many which not only cannot, they don't even have a clue. - 4:02:02 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

EXATHEIST:PETER, the things you stated are the same things atheists do in other ways. I know: I've been there. - 6:15:23 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

EXATHEIST:To all atheists: Your atheistic logic and reasoning has led you to great error. Since the Bible doesn't make sense to you, why don't you make serious effort to understand it? If you perceive that every denomination has different beliefs, and that makes you wonder how much the Bible has been changed over the last 2000 years, why hasn't that caused you to think that the reason they have different beliefs is because they don't truly understand the Bible either? If you see religious leaders who have manipulated their profession so that they can make personal gain, why can't you be a Christian who doesn't do the same? It is true that a lot of religious leaders actually do things they're not supposed to do and are hypocrites, but why can't you be a Christian without being a hypocrite? If you think Christianity has caused many wars in the name of God, why can't you be a Christian and seek peace. Your reasons for not being a Christian are irrational. Your reasons for not being a Christian are equivalent to not desiring to be a human simply because humans steal, murder,are diseased and etc. Is that the best logic your atheism can come up with? - 6:20:23 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:EXATHEIST. I stand by my original assessment of you. I do not believe you were ever an atheist. You say you were soured on atheism by "friends, colleauges, deceived atheist politicians I supported, collegeprofessors I knew and movie stars." You are so full of shit it's coming out of your ears. Yoou don't have the guts to sign your own name, but here's your chance to expose those atheist politicians, college professors, and movie stars you claim to have known. I'm not even asking you to name friends and colleauges so you can't make the excuse that you can be traced. In the words of Emile Zola, "J'accuse!" I accuse you of being a liar and a sneak pretending to be something you were not - an atheist. You always were and still are a christian. And I'm not ashamed to sign my name. - 6:25:17 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:EXATHEIST - (supposedly) First of all, I don't hate you. I pity you. Now, you ask "Why can't you be a christian and seek peace?" That's easy. Because jesus doesn't want peace. Read your christian bible. Here are chapter and verse. Get your bible out. Here goes. Matthew 10:33:36. "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth. I come not to send peace but a sword. For I am come to set every man at variance against a father and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.--" Luke 22-36. (Quoting jesus) "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." The one I like best is when the bloodthirsty jesus sets the standard for his followers " See Luke 19-27. "But those mine enemies which would not that I should reign over them, bring thither and slay them before me." So now you know "Why can't you be a christian and seek peace?" There it is in your own christian bible. So what do you have to say now? - 6:48:42 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:PAM THE SPAM. Are you suffering from carpal tunnel syndrome? With all the time you spend spamming our site you'll probably get it. Of course your Druid friends can cure it with the right dendrils. Goodbye. - 6:55:07 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

EX_ATHEIST:PapaSam: You are just as wrong about me as you are about Christianity. You have never met me, and you are going to tell me what I have never been. Your assessment don't mean a thing except how atheist is wont to deceive you. But as In read the things you say , it helps me to understand how blind I was when I harbored the same blinding sentiments as you. There are many who know I was once an atheist, and there are many who know I turned from it to God. And as I look back over my life when I was an atheist, I see how terribly deceived I was and I am now shame - you makes me shame, because I was like you. Its like being deceived and performing all your thoughts words and deeds in that deception, and all of a sudden coming to your senses and perceiving the truth. At first you don't want to accept you have wrong for so long. And so, you keep trying to live by the deception you had grown use to. But your perception that you are wrong and God is right overshadows your deception so much that you must submit to it and finally reject atheism. - 11:26:04 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Grant:EX ATHEIST-- Lately lots of xtians are telling how they were once atheists. It seems to be some kind of trend or something. I guess a few years ago the population was 50% atheist. Anyway, to me it doesn't really matter because it falls in the category of personal testimonial, which is about the most unreliable source of truth there is in my view, and the only thing you have presented us so far. As an ex xtian (extian?) I have similar feelings about once having been blind but now seeing things clearly, but you see, this has no value in defending atheism for the same reason. IMO your approach here is detrimental to your goals because it demonstrates a poor ability to judge what is relevant to the issues and doesn't address at all anything that could be a reasonable determiner of truth. - 12:31:53 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Steven:JOETTE<<>>how bout them Rangers Wahooooo!!!!! - 13:12:01 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:EXATHEIST- Like Papasam, I don't believe you were ever an atheist and if that's calling you a liar so be it. Being atheist for me has really nothing to do with how crazy your religion is or in fact how crazy they all are. It has to do with lack of evidence for a god. - 13:24:02 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVEN..it's not that the Rangers played well, it's that the Blue Jays played so badly. I am on a personal campaign to have their GM fired. grrrrhhhh - 14:01:24 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->PAM..any chance of some magic conjuring up rOB? When you were rOB, your posts were welcome, made sense and such, and it is sad to see the page turn against you... - 14:13:13 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:--EXATHTEIST--Ok, you were an atheist, but do not try to claim your beliefs were the same as any other atheist. In an earlier post I explained that there are endeless ways to arrive at an atheistic position. Atheism is not a belief --it is an abscence of a belief. One cannot infer any positive beliefs simply because one is an atheist--they are the result of another set of broader beliefs, and each could argue their atheistic position from copletely different perspectives. A marxist and an objectivist both arrive at atheistic positions, but they are as far apart concerning practically every other issue as they could be......... Were you ever a christian BEFORE being an atheist, or were you brought up as an atheist, and continued to be one until you became a christian as you are now. - 14:39:53 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: Of P.Hanson, about 06 mos.ago, one of my offspring brought'an aussie'name to my attention. We checked around and read some loving person kinda things and stuff about that person. I was saddened to read that such people still live and think in such ways. I'm still waitin'to see if RT PIPES will affirm my recollection and that it was P.Hanson I read of. But when I read newspapers of various places on the planet, I always find myself frowning at reading that people, seemingly everywhere, want to do mean things or expect mean things done to them. About like the exatheist here spewing "his" hatred of something{?} then saying the non-exatheist types are the problem. Did he say who was now watching his godthing and where he left it? - 14:39:58 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Steven:JOETTTE<<>>I thought the Rangers played very well. Loaiza pitched 8 innings with only 5 hits and two er's. They came back being one down in the 9th to win, championship style. The night before last they scored 11 runs on Toronto pichting. Their new pitcher performed well and they are now back into the groove. The recent trade did them justice. Also, the Rangers are 10 games above 500, while the Blue Jays are 2 games under 500. The Rangers lead their division by 1.5 games, and the Blue Jays are 26.5 back, ouch. Nuff said, Rangers beat the Blue Jays, the Blue Jays didn't lose it. hehe, this is fun, PS. I realize that basically the argument is the same one, whether the Blue Jays lost it, or the Rangers won it, it is still a check in the win column. - 14:47:50 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

-->CARL..with w.r.t. Pauline Hanson, I think it is a good thing that RTP brought her to our attention. There is a wealth of information about her on the internet, (mostly against her and some have even devoted joke pages about her) because she and her ilk are a menace II society. I knew nothing of her until RTP mentioned her name, and so now she bears close scrutiny. - 14:53:33 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:--STEVEN--Knock it off will ya, there is only one reason the Ragers won: Greg Myers. And the Ranger's were also fortunate to win the game on Tuesday as Tim Johnson ( Blue Jay manager ) doesn't know when to pull his pitchers, as he left Carpenter in far too long, when the Rangers got 7 runs off him. - 15:00:05 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:ExATHEIST: You inscribe that we, still atheists, ought to disregard the evil and immorality of xtianitys'past and present deeds; therefore do we not adhere to xtianity. Then you grasp at the wisp of the prospect (here maybe you meant to use some sort of literary device), of denying to be a human being because there are bad humans. If your intentions here are to contend for some religious theory, then share with us some sound thoughtful relevant concept{s} that is xtian. What values makes that theory meaningful? Are any of its tenets unique and original to itself? In the few years I've read of these points and others of course, such ideas xtians borrowed, plagerised and committed outright acts fraud,e.g., Pope Leo X said, what riches has not the fable of jesus not brought us. So what is xtian? - 15:07:08 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Steven:PETER<<>>hehe, I wonder who will be playing in the post season. Anyway, the BJ's manager does blow, but that is part of the team, right? - 15:51:22 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:--STEVEN--Sure he's part of the team, andif i identify the problems, so should the GM, as Joette says--he should get the boot because he doesn't have a clue what to do with this team..which is a shame-because they have the talent. Oh well, this is what happens to fans of a team that have one to world series in the nineties. maybe someday before the year 2100 the Rangers can win it--at least once anyway! - 16:20:57 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVEN..is the xtian delusion rubbing off on you? The Rangers in post-season? bwahhhhhhaaaaahahahahah - 16:24:45 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:EXATHEIST -supposed. Liar. I challenged you to name names. You didn't because you couldn't. You are a whimpering, lying christian, in the full tradition of your predecessors, and your only regret is that you can't bring back the inquisition. You prate about the high moral standards of christianity and create fictions to try to prove your point. From your style and content I infer that you and ROBERT T LEE and TEACHER are one and the same. So once again, name the names of the "atheist politicians who decceived you" and the others including the movie stars you have know. You are not only a liar, you are a piss- poor liar. - 17:23:23 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:ExATHEIST: As some here have already pointed out to you, your 'personal' experience is meaningless to any other. About the only site I know of where such a tale would be welcomed is the theology(?) chat site. They there would "believe" your every thought and word. Forget you could, of ever having to account any relevance to others, or anything for that matter. They there would bless you and pray for you and tell you how they "knew" jesus hisself was at yer side! That seems like the kind of mindlessness you want heaped onto you and yours, yes?. They there have their tales of when they were possessed and influenced by demons and even the devil hisself. I have yet to read o'any o'them havin'seen and spoken to the v.mary hersef' so that is surely a open option for the takin'. They there all kno'the holy spirit, you kno'that thing that walked on the water in the empty and dark before the creation o'lite and dark? They kno'that critter quite well, at that site! Is this the kind of ignorance of this society that comforts you? - 17:56:46 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

PETER<<>>What would be nice, is if the Rangers even made it to a World Series in my lifetime. They have always had the offensive talent to play with anyone. Pitching has been the Rangers curse since their inception. I think the Rangers are turning all that around. They have a proven manager, they now have solid defense, the pitching is decent (much better with Stodlemyer (sp)), I think they have an opportunity this year, I hope they do not blow it. - 18:17:19 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: New to me is that the xtian fundamentalist movement on the religious amendment thing or whatever, it has precedence. Click here and read it for oneself, interesting? - 18:56:45 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN1: Its article 14 appears to be an early version of a creationist position and arguements for a place in a classroom. - 19:05:37 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..yet another great site...ever notice how the Catholic Church always does whatever is politically right for the time? Anything to keep that money rolling in. - 19:43:55 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->NEWSFLASH...Janet Reno was cited for contempt. She oughtta call the pope! - 19:45:42 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: Those catholics clearly know when to go along to get along. They even have the corcordat notion all spelled for immediate and proper references. Clearly too, there is no godthing anywheres. It is just power hungry control mongerers. - 20:10:56 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:EXATHEIST (Self labeled) aka ROBERT T LEE aka TEACHER. I called you a liar and asked you for names. You didn't give me any. I I showed you by quoting your precious bible that your jesus was a bloodthirsty power hungry bastard. No reply from you. Go back to your jesus site where you and your fellow believers can wallow in your mutual delusions. You make me want to vomit. - 23:12:16 on 6 Aug 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:>>>>>Do you realize that it is atheists who produce computer viruses that destroy data on your computers; and it is atheists who cause denial of service to internet providers.>>>>> It is also atheists who are culprits who send SPAM and email bombs.>>>>> They are also the ones who place all the smut on the web such as atheism, pornography, homosexuality, pedophilia and bestiality. Yes, it is the atheist that you must seek to protect yourself and your kids from.>>>>> Atheists and other non believers are the ones destroying morals in America. Atheists are the true enemies of America and the world community. - 4:19:20 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:ROBERT T LEE. A skunk by any other name stinks just as bad. Whatever you choose to call yourself doesn't matter. If you're looking for pedophiles, go to your nearest church and check out your priest or minister. You'll also find the homosexuals in your churches. Unlike you, I don't condemn them. I don't feel it's my right to control other peoples'sexual activities, as long as they don't use children (like your pedoophile priests and ministers) or use force. So if you want to engage in a homosexual relationship go to it. I assume you must have seen quite a bit of pornography to be expert enough to condemn it. Did you get erotic feelings while watching it? If so, how did you handle your erection? Did you soak your penis in a pitcher of ice water or did you masturbate? I know it's none of my business, but you brought up the subject. You also seem to know something about bestiality. Did you ever work on a sheep ranch? I look forward to your answers, but don't choke on your bile. Your friendly correspondent. - 4:45:20 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:ROBERT T LEE.. Newsflash. I just read that the Anglican Church is considering ordaining gays as ministers and performing same sex weddings. Wow! Doesn't that frost your balls!! - 4:49:50 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:EXATHEIST, SELF PROCLAIMED. Still waiting for the names, you lying bastard. Who are the deceitful Atheist politicians and movie stars you claim to know. - 4:54:23 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->ROBERT T. LEE...again, another good chuckle from your post. Now, you cannot prove the existence of your god, but maybe you can prove the allegations you stated in your post. Please name the atheists that are putting pornography on the internet. Do you know these people, and have they discussed their atheism with you? Put your knowledge where your mouth is please. - 13:39:38 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Russ T Pipes..:Two US Embassy bombings in Africa. I say fence the place off. Give all these black bastards a lump of 2 by 4 and let them annihiliate themselves. - 14:05:24 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->RUSS T PIPES..have the arrested those responsible for the bombings? Do you know for a fact that they were not caucasions or oriental? What's this problem you have with black people? - 14:15:24 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

time to dust off the "How Low Can You Go" file - "MAN USES BIBLE TO DEFEND WIFE ASSAULT" - Guelph - CP correspondent::A man who used the Bible to justify a violent attack on his wife pleased guilty Wednesday to charges of assault and choking. Gregory Clark, 32, assaulted his wife on July 8 at their apartment after telling her he was king of the house and quoting Ephesians 5:22. "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord," was the passage he cited before the assault. The argument began when Clark, who had been drinking, came home from work and was upset his wife didn't greet him with a hug and kiss. During the assault Clark grabbed his wife around the throat and attempted to choke her and also took hold of the couple's nine-month-old baby. Neighbours witnessed the assault. Clark, who had a prior assault and harrassment conviction, also pleaded guilty Wednesday to breach of probation. His probation prohibited him from consuming alcohol. Sentencing was adjourned to Oct. 23 so a pre-sentence report could be prepared. Provincial Court Judge Norman Douglas suggested to Clark that he also examine Ephesians 5:25. "I know that verse," Clark said. "It reads, 'Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it' ". - 14:24:15 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->I would like to read RTL's comments on that article. He will, of course, state that he is in full agreement with the husband. I bet he has done the same to his wife. - 14:25:45 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Russ T Pipes...Hi Joette.....:....One day you will be pushing a broom across a black persons floor for a bowl of rice. - 14:35:57 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

...and a raw herring head, if you are lucky. - 14:41:47 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: It appears as though RT PIPES could be an acquaintance of RT LEE. While maybe not in a religious sense, but surely as a power mongerer. I sure wish I could link an Email ltr.written by Robert Jensen "White people need to acknowledge benefits of unearned privilege." R.Jensen is a mediocre prof at the U.Texas. Mediocre- his term. The things he inscribes of would be at least contrary to RT PIPES apparent{?}view on matters. And, surely it could be fodder for thought. - 14:52:33 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->RUSS T PIPES...or should it read Rusty Brain? That is quite a ludicrous statement you made. Do you have the facts to back up such a statement? BTW, I've been watching several news stations about the bombings in Africa, and no one has claimed responsibility for the bombings as yet. You haven't answered my question yet: what is the problem you have with black people? - 15:04:53 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:RT PIPES: Although on the other hand, "let them annihilate themselves" I am news-story aware of some local developments operated by the dark people that are failures, and knowing of these things your statement may fit in a very natural way. Look at the graffitti problem who does it most? In this area it is the non-whites, as these particular young non-white groups vie for control and attention, whatever it is they want I don't know. But it sure resembles the 2X4 thing. - 15:40:17 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:RT PIPES: I think true that on the other hand, it appears that when one interest alone handles things, like the inferences of my examples of the dark ones, that can happen. There is on the other hand the problem of 'mediocrity', when one group alone handles all. There are, probably numerous, examples of success that involve the best people available, of course this point of view would have to be argued for. While that Email ltr.I mentioned refers to whites, that sort of action is just something quite common to any human creature. Its the extremism that is deadly,e.g., see RTL now and xtianity at any time. - 16:07:11 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..your posts have confused me. What does graffitti have to do with someone wanting an entire race to annihilate itself? Sure, the graffitti may be an eye sore to some, great urban art to others, but it is the impetus of that art that is the problem, not necessarily the persons doing the vandalism. I hope that I have misunderstood your response to RTP and that you are not condoning his bigotry? - 16:16:34 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..you once made a joke that I might be an ebony lesbian, which of course I am not. May I enquire as to what colour your skin is? - 16:17:54 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: I didn't take RTPs'post to go to that extreme. So far its RTL and the other xtian types that call for extreme forms of inhumanity to be placed on all. [I think it is an act of one who's against humanity, to call for others to not think and not know, but to credulously and ignorantly "believe", whatever that is supposed to mean.] RTP thoughts were taken by me in the context that I see, and some of you see too, as the animal thing of survival of the strong. I prefer a survival of the fit; to the strong, so far RTP has not posted anything indicative of his thinking abilities. Skin colour, well I been out in the sun daily doing baseball, so I've heard it said that I'm well tanned. After baseball I will resume reading and such, I'm considering learning the German language to read what those math and science writers really said in that language. So, probably in a few mos.the burn will be gone. Is this what you really want to know? - 16:42:55 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..as soon as I sent my inquiry to you, I just knew that you would say you had a tan. Many people are unaware that even those non-caucasian types tan as well, so you could be of any origin. My own spouse is an octoroon, and so at certain times of the year, he looks very much like a black person, while at other times he just looks like a perpetually olive skinned caucasian. Myself, I stay out of the sun most of the time, so I look pale most of the time, so there is no question about my what race I belong to. W.r.t. to your wanting to learn German, do you mistrust the translations? - 18:17:02 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: maybe old obviously not original, but you may chuckle at it nontheless- Five presidents were taking a cruise when their liner hit an iceberg. Ford cried: Oh my goodness! what do we do? Reagan said: Man the lifeboats! Carter added: Women and children first! Nixon said: Screw the women and children!! And Clinton, in that soft southern drawl of his, asked: Do we have time?? - 18:20:19 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:To PaPA SAM>>>>>You stated: "If you're looking for pedophiles, go to your nearest church and check out your priest or minister. You'll also find the homosexuals in your churches." >>>>>Hasnt,t your "superior" atheistic reasoning ability enabled you to perceive why there are homosexuals, pedophiles and other heathens in the "church?" They are there because most of these are none other than atheists in disguise whose real aim is to try to discredit true Christianity. This fact is nothing new and one you cannot rightly dispute. But you atheists will not admit it. You will only claim that these are "Christians" living lives of hypocrisy. Furthermore, Catholicism is not true Christianity. and neither is Anglican, baptist, methodist, or Presbyterian and etc. When you find the true Church, you won't find hypocrites. - 18:27:13 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: Mistrust? I think some things are communicated in original/native language of birth whatever, that are beyond remain outside any full translation that is all. Furthermore, I think all people can know math- or numbers, all people are logical naturally. They we are born and grow so, those as RTL,et.al., choose to deny that and with their denial they call it- logic, something else- god. That being is "nothing" if nothing has being but math and science types usually call the unknown "chance". Perhaps one of the original textbooks will convey something more- to me, in a word then I now can see. Its a chance thing? - 18:37:34 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Adam INSIDE ATHEISM BASEBALLDERDASH ***** :Spahn and Sein and Pray to Nothing İİİİİ To exatheist: What makes you think there is a god? And if there is a god, why is he such a cowardly bastard who refuses to face a superior being like myself? Are you not humiliated to follow such a damned wimp? To Steven: I, too, root for the Rangers in the quasi-baseball league, but you must acknowledge that even if they win their joke of a division (by no means a certainty), they do not have the pitching to do anything but get thrashed by the lineups of the scum Yankees, Boston or Cleveland. Hurts me too. - 18:54:05 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:RT LEE: So all that forgivin'stuff and the road of salvation that that forgiveness makes available to a forgiven, by your godthing, is really meaningless? If, it perse, is not meaningless, could it be instead, that you do not grasp that meaning because you do not have any clues for a godthing, but only believe there is a godthing? If a godthing were a true thing it would be knowable, just as a human knows the universe- the totality of all things that exists, without knowing it all we know it is there nevertheless. Where is your godthing? Is it in a book, is it invisible? I must guess that it is only the most ardent of your innermost wishes, and nothing more. - 18:59:41 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->RTL..all this laughing is hurting my stomach! So you believe that there are those infiltrating the sanctity of churches to bring their evil messages to the congregations? Why do I have visions of false noses attached to glasses when I imagine this happening? And what is the TRUE church? Since you have decided that anyone belonging to a denominational church isn't a Christian (most would be surprised by the revelation), tell us what your TRUE church is. Are you wanting to follow in the footsteps of Jimmy Jones, David Koresch and the like? Are you practicing your kool-aid recipes? - 19:30:12 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->RTL...have you ever been atheist, so that you know so much of the mind-set of an atheist? - 19:32:51 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Adam BOYS of SUMMARY JUDGMENT ®®®® :Who can you turn to in a pinch hitter? Even the Blue Jays can kick god's ass. God never has been able to turn on a good fastball and sucks in the field. - 19:37:19 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:EXATHEIST. Well, I'm still waiting. Where are the names? I reiterate - you are a sneaky lying bastard caught in the act. You will crawl into a corner until you think of a new name and return to this site. What will it be? Here are a few suggestions. REQUAKE - ROBERTA T LEE - PEDAGOGUE. Whatever it will be, we'll recognize you. Your vapid mouthings will identify you. - 20:27:44 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:ROBERT T LEE, jesus's representative on earth. All hail to Pope Robert, founder and first leader of the church of Robert, the only true christian. Bow before him, kneel before him, prostrate yourselves before him. Only ROBERT T LEE knows the truth. If you don't believe it, ask him. He will soon be offering the ROBERT T LEE versions of the bible for sale, which will refute the King James, Vulgate and all other versions, including the night table version of the Godeon bible, known to all motel visitors. I can hardly wait. - 20:40:08 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:ROBERT T LEE. By the way, it might give you some small comfort to know that even though I am an atheist, I do not make any graven images. You see, even by your judgement, I'm not all bad. - 20:46:45 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Grant:CARL-- I like that title "White people need to acknowledge benefits of unearned privilege." Any hint where one might find it? Where did you see it? - 20:57:30 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

RON...--->The Living GOD...: Just checking in fellow humans. How is life? Mine is better every day. Cheers. - 21:12:43 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:GRANT: That was composed by an R.Jensen a prof with the U.Texas. He described it as a revelation while conversing with a "white student" in his office. They were talkin'about affirmative action. I rec'd it Email style. I guess one could check w/that institution and that it would probably be there somewhere. Or later I may try some rewrite action. I'd copy/paste it but i'm unsure of what would become of all the Email addrresses now on the piece. - 21:37:31 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->GRANT...I found some of Professor Jensen's writings... - 23:49:13 on 7 Aug 98 GMT

Grant: Web wizard :JOETTE-- How the heck did you do that? I had no luck at all. - 0:48:41 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->GRANT..t'wasn't easy. I started with the name, then the name and university, and then had to look at about 50 sites before even getting close. This man is as about as obscure as anyone can be. I tried finding more, but to no avail. - 0:52:41 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene..assholes by the dozen!:SO! RTL thinks(he tries), that all those boy-raping priests are (all together now!!!) "Not really christians!!!". LOL! What a idiot! And speaking of idiots, that racist pig that lacks the balls to post a name to the message, is a prime example. I wonder if he/she knows that they are being monitored, LOL! - 4:47:25 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:I've noticed that when EXATHEIST ceases to exsist ole RTL cuts in. Maybe it's too confusing for him. - 5:29:39 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:PAPASAM- I know that the anglicans have been allowing gay church personal for sometime here in Canada. Although basically catholic, they are a little more liberal. This was the religion of my family seeing as they originate in England. I think the big deal was over the more conservative anglicans whining about it. Didn't do them any good, so I hear. - 5:33:34 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:How can a church be true in your view Robert T. Lee if humans are slaves to its wishes or doctrines? Is the church in your own imagination or it is cult for weak-minded people to come enter its physical doors ? Human fralities are suckers dice. - 8:53:02 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

EX_ATHEIST:PapaSam: It is not expedient that I should reveal my or my former colleages identities to you. And furthermore, who are you that I should do so anyway?. An atheist has no rightful status, regardless of high or low it is. If I reveled my identity, you wouldn't believe it. But if I could convince you of my it, you would be quirte surprised. - 12:47:10 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:-----Ahhhhhhh. What a good feeling it is to realize that when truth smacks atheists in the face from any source and from any corner, they think of ole ROBERT T. LEE. Its a good feeling to always be identified with GOD'S TRUTHS! Is the name ROBERT T. LEE going to haunt them the rest of their lives? - 13:02:53 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

Vern:~~~Sheesh!~~~ - 14:02:33 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

. - 14:11:58 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->RTL..rather large ego, what? If you stopped posting here, you would be as memorable as yesterday's breakfast. - 15:10:48 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->EX_ATHEIST..although your argument is with Papasam, I would like to make a comment or two. Yours words "And furthermore, who are you that I should do so anyway?" are rather rude in my opinion. Who is Papasam? He is an honest person to start with. We all know his identity and most of us have his e-mail address so we can converse if we want. We know that he is who he says he is, as he has nothing to hide. The same goes for Marlene, Peter, Adam, Grant, Carl, Ron, Steven and others. We atheists are a skeptic bunch, and so we know that if we lie, or make statements that cannot be verified, then someone here is going to step in and demand the truth. So, I guess what seperates we atheists from you is that we live honest lives, and our impatience for less than honesty has been shown in our responses to your claims. - 15:16:26 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

- 17:31:37 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:RACIST- You may feel that your race is secure on this planet but in reality it is not. Race can be termed as such, a temporarily isolated gene pool. In fact, you as well as I and everyone else out there are hybrid. - 18:18:36 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:EXATHEIST, PROBABLY RTL IN DISGUISE. You are a lying christian. You were never an atheist. You say you don't want to reveal the names of your colleagues. I don't want their names. I want the names of the other atheists. Since you despise them so much you would be happy to give the names if you had any to give. I repeat - you are not only a liar, you are a piss poor liar. Get lost. Go back to your godly sites where your fellows will welcome you. You can spend your time swallowing each others bullshit. - 20:34:08 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:ROBERT T LEE. Obviously, you think of women as inferior to men, as posted in your web site. Do you thimk of your mother as an inferior part of the human race? Do you equate yourself with the flower growing out of a pile of manure? Does your mother know you think of her as no better than a pile of horseshit? - 20:54:05 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

dana:Papasam: Geesh, did you read that little scroll box in the left frame (of www.tencommandments.org)? It says lots of things, including the support of censorship. It also says if he receives email of a "heathen" nature he will report the sender to his/her isp. Hardly fair that he harrasses atheist at their sites but doesn't welcome responses to his own. And he accuses US of feeling threathened by HIM. lol - 21:08:34 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

dana:Something else that is ironic: The American Family Association (http://www.afa.net/) is being blocked by Cyber Patrol. The AFA is quite upset. I guess censorship isn't quite as "decent" when viewed from the censored side of the fence. - 21:12:53 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

TEACHER:>>>>>GREETINGS CLASS>>>>>Very few people give serious thought about the type caliber of people who should serve as leaders of their societies. I want each of you to imagine the most godly and noble people serving as leaders of your societies. Think how wonderful it would be to have such people serve in public trust.>>>>>Now, I want you to visit the "man is manmade" live discussion page and read the messages posted there by the various atheists - particularly those that post regularly, such as PapaSam, Marlene, Joette, Peter, Adam, Grant, Carl, Ron, Steven and others. After reading their posts, I want you to imagine that bunch as leaders in your societies. As you do so, you will find you are imagining a horrific nightmare. Reading the terrible heathenism those atheists place on that page causes any sound mind to loose all respect and honor for them if they were leaders. They aren't fit to be leaders in any society. They are very ignoble people and are unqualified to serve even as garbage collectors. Their heathen atheism nullifies all the highest credentials they can ever attain.>>>>>Imagine PapaSam as the ignoble judge who had to decide a case in which true and noble Christians were innocently involved. PapaSam wouldn't be capable or judging rightly or justly. Imagine the nature of legislation that would be proposed or voted on if these atheists were legislators. Atheists are already responsible for legislation that murders innocent human embryos and fetuses and which protect the lives of murderers who are in prison who have committed death worthy crimes. But let us imagine they served in a lower position as jurors and the innocent Lord Jesus Christ was on trial. His sentence would be nothing less than death.>>>>>Finally, I want you to study all the statistics and assess how terrible america and the world community is, then you will realize why they are in the terrible condition they are in. It is because the people who are ruling america and the world community are just as ignoble, unqualified, foolish and satanic as the atheists who post regularly on the "man is manmade" live discussion page. The world will always be in sad shape with atheists at the helm.>>>>>CLASS DISMISSED. - 21:23:22 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

???:PapaSam: How could Mr. Lee be lying about him having never been a Christian. I think it was you who said on a number occasions that everyone is born an atheist. Do you believe your own words? You are a lying atheist. - 21:31:59 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->TEACHER a.k.a. RTL..please define a true and noble Christian. - 21:59:16 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->RTL..you really do need to reach a larger audience. I think you would make a great guest on the Jerry Springer show. - 22:01:10 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

Peter:**laughs in the teacher's face** - 23:03:50 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

?PapaSam:??? No-name hiding behind question marks. You state "How could Mr. Lee be lying about him never having been a christian." What are you talking about? When did I say that Mr. Lee was never a christian? When did anyone ever say that. What I did say was that the one who called himself "EXATHEIST" was a liar when he claimed he had been an atheist. You should go back to school. Your reading comprehension is obviously at a low level. In addition yu are not too bright. You make a good christian. - 23:51:17 on 8 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:And I sling spit balls at the teacher's ass, oops..no..that's his face! - 0:08:14 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene..:PAPASAM- Didn't I mention that it was too confusing for RTL and EXATHEIST to post in the same day. If one is going to be sucessful at being sneaky, one needs to posess the smarts to pull it off. He's obviously not in possesion. - 0:11:17 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene..Oh Worthy One:RTL- Since I'm not worthy of picking garbage and you are, you can come and clean my house and yard any time. - 0:13:01 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:TEACHER. You forgot to mention that I am also a believer in equal rights for women, that I do not believe women are unclean, not even your mother. As for your innocent boy jesus, read your bible, stupid. Here are a few quotes from your prince of peace. "Ne that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." From Luke 22;36. Next: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth. I come not to send peace but a sword. For I am come to set man at variance against a father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law---" That's from Matthew 10:33;36. Here's a nice one. "But those mine enemies which would not that I reign over them, bring thither and slay them before me." That's from Luke 19=27 I wonder if he pays cash rewards. Just think, you could win points and make money by dragging me over to your boy and letting him cut my throat. By the way, since you like the idea of living in a theocracy, why don't you move to Afghanistan? You could really see a religious paradise, maybe even get a few new ideas on how to treat infidels. - 0:20:10 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->dana...RTL is censoring his chat page now because I and a friend once visited it and had much fun seeing what words could or could not be used. Because he wants us to think that he is tolerant, the "n" word could not be used, but words like "kike", "mick", "jewboy", "dago" and all sorts of deragotory terms were allowed. Also, if a "." is placed properly, anything can be said, so it only made him look like a foolish bigot (which is what he is, only he doesn't have the cajones to admit it). - 0:44:49 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->TEACHER a.k.a. RTL..please define a true and noble Christian - 0:46:27 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

ROBERT T. EE:*****You stated, "....please define a true and noble Christian." The best and shortest answer: The Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. He's beyond a true and noble Christian. - 1:17:20 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->RTL..a Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Christ, therefore he is not a Christian, he is Christ. So, I ask you again: Please define a true and noble Christian. Of course, we all realize you would have to exclude yourself, as you do not love your neighbours as you love yourself. In fact, the meaning of the word love probably eludes you. - 2:27:13 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

PETER-- **thinks Robert T. Lee is the perfect buffoon**:ROBERT T. LEE---Hey we all make typo's, but at least spell your own name correctly. - 2:37:25 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

???:Hey Peter! If you are going to condemn Mr. Lee for his typos, at least spell typos right in the sentence you condemn him. - 2:43:53 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

ROBERT T.LEE:ALL, notice the following quote: Joette:-->dana...RTL is censoring his chat page now because I and a friend once visited it and had much fun seeing what words could or could not be used. Because he wants us to think that he is tolerant, the "n" word could not be used, but words like "kike", "mick", "jewboy", "dago" and all sorts of deragotory terms were allowed. Also, if a "." is placed properly, anything can be said, so it only made him look like a foolish bigot (which is what he is, only he doesn't have the cajones to admit it)>>>>>This is just additional proof that atheists are the ones who produce SPAM> - 3:00:11 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:????--It wasn't a typo, it was a spelling error. I deliberately, but erroneously, put in that apostrophe.....at least it wasn't my own name.....and at least I USE my own name, unlike some others who post here. - 3:27:00 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:EE.Such devotion and energy for your haunting rants. Where do you muster the resolve to collect your thoughts on such issues as encroachment? - 6:16:55 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:question mark poster. Isn't the usage of the question mark nebulous with regards to producing a state of confusion or is it merit of your mirth? - 6:21:19 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:T.EE Possibly a julep for you to circumvent that crawling jurisprudence of yours? Or rather you insist on being clean-cut as a toggle joint. - 6:32:15 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

EX_ATHEIST:"Man is manmade": It doesn't take much to perceive the utter foolishness of those words and the low caliber of mind that coined them. Did man create himself? Its ludicrous to even attempt to answer that question. If those words are meant to convey the thought that man's philosophical understanding is manmade, that is quite true as far as it concerns the ignoble and heathenistic atheist. Because his philosophy of atheism is manmade, if it could be corporeally sharpened, it would look as terrible as any physical man that man has attempted to make. Why would any one want to be the product of the depths of their own depravity? Who would be satisfied to be sharpened by the depraved minds of the lowest corporeal creature on earth? Only the ignoble atheist. - 10:34:27 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

RUSS T PIPES to EX_ATHEIST...:....Were you wrong before or after you jumped the fence? When the English built their first motorway, the M1, they omitted tunnels by which small animals could pass underneath it. Within 2 years scientists were able to detect differences between species either sise of the motorway. Was this caused by god's wish or what? - 11:36:16 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

sise=sides (sorry-must have annoyed god again-oops!) - 11:37:38 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:RUSS T PIPES- Like I said, temporary gene pools. Another example is the Canada Goose and the Snow Goose. It's not any different with people. - 12:51:45 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:Anyone see _Contact_? - 12:55:10 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->ROBERT T. LEE...congratulations on your ability to copy and paste. However, the real point of my post goes unanswered. Why are you such a bigot, filled with so much hatred? I thought being a Christian meant loving everyone? - 14:38:45 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->>ROBERT T. LEE..funny that you and EXATHEIST both learned a new word yesterday...the word "ignoble" has shown up quite a bit in both of your writings. Wouldn't it be easier just to be one person, or are you trying to tell us that you are suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder? - 14:45:32 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:**chortles ucontrollably as Robert T.Lee's buffoonery continues to amuse and entertain** - 15:00:05 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

dana:I think the definition of "SPAM" eludes Mr. EE [sic]. - 15:44:46 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

dana:MARLENE: Yes, it is a pretty good movie. There are a few parts that irk me though. Like when Palmer gives her the "did you love your father?" analogy in response to ockam's(sp) razor and she appears to be stumped by it. The end, when she was giving testimony to her trip and it was similar to Palmer's explanation of his god. Well, at least we did find out that there was aproximately 18 hours of recorded static to back up HER claim. =) - 15:49:18 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->TEACHER a.k.a. RTL..please define a true and noble Christian - 16:07:09 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->Hey RTL..now you can talk to Jesus directly! - 16:17:15 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

dana:btw, anyone read the BOOK "Contact?" I would like to know just how different the book and movie are. - 17:08:51 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:dana. Firstly the focusing of the eye unread in regards to the movie. A fluxion of mediums perhaps. The metacarpus collects the metaliferous contact points though. - 18:00:09 on 9 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:EXATHEIST aka piss poor liar. Two days have gone by and you still haven't named anyone. Promises, promises - by a christian sneak pretending to having been an atheist. Who are the deceitful atheist politicians and movie stars you allegedly knew. Unmask them! Do your christianly duty. - 2:36:16 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

dana:Dorn: I'm sorry, what did you say? =) Did it have something to do with Carl Sagan's book? - 3:42:52 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:DANA- I agree with your comments on the movie. I also read the book but it was such a long time ago I forget much of it. I really don't remember the part where her father meets her on the other planet. I can't remember who I even lent the book out to, so I can check. Maybe Steven (also a sci-fi fan) has read it. - 5:11:41 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

???:PapaSam+It was you who said everyone is born an atheist. This would apply to EX ATHEIST as well wouldn't it? Again, don't you believe your own words. Why do you keep saying EX ATHEIST is a liar in the face of your own words. PapaSam, you are insane. Atheism, like maggots, is eating your brain. - 5:53:27 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:??? Insanity breeds nameless opinions. Atheism hatches a fly. Quite extraordinary for a factotum. - 6:27:22 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:dana. Explicitly any book suffices. Of a Carl Sagan reading, I am not properly familiar. - 6:31:21 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:dana. mmmmmm Shermer's take on the some thoughts of the outlandish despite the contrary evidence pivotally places the rational. Though restrictive the scientific method distinguishes a method not just a subject. - 7:03:41 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:Speaking of maggots EXATHEIST, I would bet my last penny that you and RTL are closer than identical twins. - 13:29:05 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: One of you mentioned that atheists posting here are honest and include their names to stand for their inscriptions.(Could we be heroes?) The stuff that the pro-theism types try, is related to their penchant of, demons and spirits waging a war to have and possess them. That is merely how important these "pro-theist types" choose to think that they are. The price?, the pro-theist types must choose to fear their own minds and like that view of/about alcoholics, like the alkoholic, theism too want you and I to share in their misery, and that misery appears to me, just mental abuse. I almost chuckled at the pro-theist who inscribed he/she would haunt our dreams, what a childish attempt to instill fear. - 15:34:59 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- Could it be that somewhere deep in their psyche, they know they are deluded and are afraid to make themselves know publicly? - 16:28:54 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:EXATHEIST. Man is man made as opposed to your idea that man is god made. Face it. Your father had sex with your mother. I won't go into the details but it's the same way two dogs do it in the street. As a result, you were born. 'God' did not copulate with your mother. Your father did. You were made the same way I was and all animals were. It may hurt your ego, but facts are facts. - 17:14:54 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

A Littlele Girl:Hi everyone. I am 7 years of age. I want to let you knoe what and atheist ears. And atheist iis a person who uses his brain the wrung way.. Atheist don't know trutht. no one can no truth if theu rejek it. atheists are fools. They say it is no GOD. i afraid of atheists. if my parents wood have been atheists, they probably wood have killed me when eye i was in my mama woomb. Atheist kill sic olld people. atheists are nasty. atheist put a lot bad thing on the computer. atheists are dangerous. ppeople - 17:25:27 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:??? You qupte me out of contest. All children are born with blank minds. In the sense that they have no concept of any god or gods they are atheists. As they get older, the dope of religion and god is pumped into them by people like you. You didn't create your religion by original thought. You bought the finished product as it was taught to you by your parents or other authority figures. You have never attempted to analyze it. You were told your god is all knowing, all powerful, and perfect. You were told he created man, yet his creations, if your beliefs are true, are full of defects. Is that the product of a perfect all powerful god? Look at the earth, with its earthquakes, floods, cyclones, hurricanes, tsunamis, tornadoe, and other natural disasters. Is that the product of an all powerful perfect god? You have a brain, such as it is. It may not, to your disappointment, be a 'god given' brain, but use it anyway. THINK! Use your question marks ??? to ask questions, the right ones. - 17:33:21 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: I'm sure that somewhere within themselves still, is a rational reasonable thinking mind still works and is functioning. Only by an extreme act of some part somewhere, of their thinking process do they "choose" to cling to the pro-theism view. RTL and the others hanging in at this site have since relinquished a exchange, that really involves their chosen myths and superstitions because what these do is offensive to their innermost better sense of reality. The pro-theists know such action is the equivalent of an insanity that is most unbecoming to their mind and that thing which is them. I can't even refer to these pro-theist types except or but to see them as maybe wishful thinkers. - 17:40:24 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN1: As evidence for the "chosen" insane action of mind let the little girl thing be an exhibit X of many with more to come. If there is one thing that a pro-theist can only try, it is to potrary themselves and that godthing in ways unbecoming of a sound mind. In order to be of pro-theism, one must "choose" to understand such weak acts of the mind. - 17:48:12 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: Of the movie 'Contact", I liked it but it was not the book, I liked the book more. - 18:04:57 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN2: Any here make it to the redneck games? An event I got a kick outta', crunchin'beer cans. Is this a form of an undeserved white privilege? - 18:37:33 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:WHOEVER POSTED AS 'LITTLE GIRL'>>>first of all, despite your typos this is not the writings of a seven year old. A seven year old's written vocabulary would never be at this level. Secondly, I think it's really sick to imply that a seven year old chil could be filled with such hate, mistrust, and intolerance at such a young age. This post you have made here is one of the most dispicably immoral and cowardly acts I have ever witnessed in any public forum. What is even more remarkable is that being a christian you would even conjure such a hostile and evil posting--especially when in the next breath you boast that unless one is christian, he isn't moral. Well in this instance, it's obvious that christianity does not a moral man make. - 19:55:42 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

~~Dork~~: The Islamic Army of God with God's blessings, has claimed responsibility for the murderous attack on US Embassys in Kenya and Tanzania. Catholics and Protestants are hand-in-hand with Almighty God in murdering each other in Ireland..... Muslims and Christians in Bosnia, invoke the same Almighty God in showering death and destruction on each other..... Baptists, with God's smile, decide to boycott Disney without any thought for the thousands of Disney employees trying to feed themselves and raise their children..... A Godly death sentence against Salman Rushdie.... Seventh-Day-Adventists cult, the Branch Davidians, die in mass suicide for God.... Godly Hindus smash Godly Muslim Mosque and 2,000 people die.... God-believing mothers give up 12 year old daughters to cult leader David Koresh for sex.... Shiites and Sunnis kill each other... Arabs and Jews continue to murder each other.... Christian Serbs rape and kill Muslim women..... Muslims rape and kill Serbian Christians.... Ohio Christian leader sacrifices a family of five, thinking God wanted him to.... a father kills his daughter while persuading his brother to become a Christian.... Christian cultist Jim Jones and 900 others die by cyanide poisoning ..... Assembly-Of-God member Michael Griffin murders Doctor Gunn in Florida.... a Christian-Muslim war in Sudan.... Muslims kill President Sadat, and Sikh religious fanatics kill Indira Gandhi..... Christian Scientists let their children die of treatable diseases as a test of faith..... Jehovah’s Witnesses, let their children die for want of a blood transfusion.... God must get confused wondering who to help on the next Holy murderous assault.... the Catholics, the Protestants, or the Islamic killers of women and children....... I would hate to be God and have to pick who to help next. - 20:11:43 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

Steven:DORK<<>>and that doesn't even scratch the surface! - 20:16:08 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene..good thing I wasn't like that littele girl!!:PETER- But I think the post from the "littele girl" is at the same level as "exatheist/RTL", don't you? LOL! - 20:59:29 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->DORK..has someone come forward and claimed responsibility for the embassy bombings? I just heard the news, and so far they have only rounded up the usual suspects. Where did you get your information? - 21:17:40 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

Joette...teach your children well....:-->LITTLE GIRL..even though we who have any bit of sensibility know that you are not a 7 year old child, I will still address you as though you are a real person. I feel sorry for you because at such a young age you are being taught to hate people. At seven years of age, you don't know what any atheist is, but your daddy is teaching to hate someone without knowing anything about him or her. Is that the way you want to live your life, making enemies before you even know what you are saying? I don't think so. Jesus loves everybody, remember, so whoever is teaching you to hate people different from you is not a good person. The person who sat with you while you typed your message is full of hatred and anger, which is very sad. I feel sorry for you that already you are being cut off from some wonderful people, who believe that we should love everyone unless someone does something bad to us. Jesus will not like you either, if you continue this way. - 21:23:18 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: You are too much, that poor lil girl, - 22:43:26 on 10 Aug 98 GMT

Steven :ADAM---well, it took me awhile to respond to your, ummm to phrase a word you know to well, diatribe concerning the Clinton (or slick willy or whatever repubs call him)travesty. Here is the deal plain and frigging simple. Clinton has done nothing to warrant and Independent Council in the first place. My understanding of the IC is that it was created to investigate and prosecute "abuses of power". Clinton recieving a blow job from Monica, and possible lying about it, is by no means an abuse of power. You can site all of your legal knowledge and you may be correct technically, but it is nothing but self gain and a power trip on Ken Stars part to even persue any of this bs, whitewater, etc.etc. What Mr Clinton does in his private life is not something that should be persued, much less prosecuted. I personally don't care for him that much, but he is the president. Anyway, I have wasted enough energy on this already. Impeach, you should be ashamed of yourself. Maybe you can call up Rush and get a good laugh. Anyway, need I even say it, I 100% disagree with everything that you posted. ahhhh much better. - 0:50:23 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:A little girl. You are no simple minded 7 year old little girl. Simple minded yes, 7 year old little girl, no. You are more likely RTL using yet another pseudonym. Your mis-spellings and other errors are obviously deliberate. I know many intelligent believers of all faiths, and I respect them despite their beliefs. I have no respect for you, because you are a sneak and a liar, posing as someone else in an effort to push your agenda. It is my considered opinion that you, RTL, and EXATHEIST are one and the same person. If you can not defend yur beliefs honestly, they are not worth defending. - 2:53:19 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:EXATHEIST. Well, you sneaky liar, where are the names? Who are the deceitful atheist politicians and movie stars you knew so well in your old atheist days? Expose them! God wants you to. - 3:01:08 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

Joette...and now for something completely different...:-->ALL..just had the opportunity to watch "Four Little Girls", an oscar nominated by Spike Lee. If anyone can watch this and not be astounded by the amount of hatred still prevalent in today's society, that person would have to be blind, deaf and dumb, or a redneck like RTL. I highly recommend it to anyone who enjoys intelligent viewing. - 3:07:08 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

(sorry, should read "oscar nominated documentary") - 3:08:20 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:What next, publisher for the deity newsletter? The action of picking quite resembles pinning the tail on the donkey or any whimsical game. A talebearer. Yeahh where did cha'get that tact and information on those embassy bombings especially the blessing part? - 9:26:57 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:that was for ~~~Dork~~~,, what a dorky move there - 9:29:29 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn ->now boldface:Just a whim,, oohhhhweybooy an enticing bombardier, had to try. - 9:42:54 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

RUSS T PIPES.....:A man with a bad stomach complaint goes to his doctor and asks him what he can do. The doctor replies that the illness is quite serious but can be cured by inserting a suppository up his anal passage. The man agrees, and so the doctor warns him of the pain, tells him to bend over and shoves the thing way up his behind. The doctor then hands him a second dose and tells him to do the same thing in six hours.-----So, the man goes home and later that evening tries to get the second suppository inserted, but he finds that he cannot reach himself properly to obtain the required depth. He calls his wife over and tells her what to do. The wife nods, puts one hand on his shoulder to steady him and with the other shoves the medicine home.----- Suddenly the man screams, "DAMN!"----- "What's the matter?" asks the wife. "Did I hurt you?"----- "No," replies the man, "but I just realized that when the doctor did that, he had BOTH hands on my shoulders!" - 12:52:33 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:It was a refreshing thing to read of a little girl who has been taught against ignoble atheism>>>>>However, let me caution every parent again allowing their children to visit the "man is manmade" site. Atheists are very filthy minded and therefore their dicussions are filled with not only foolishness and vanity, but also filth. So their dicussion make this page a very unwholesome place for children. The little girl was right therefore when she said atheists are dirty people and they put bad things on computers. The above post is proof. - 17:02:14 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

???:Stay tuned for the heathen responses from atheis to Mr. Lee's post. - 17:05:09 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

--ROBERT T. LEE--I once watched a T,V. special about the Ku Klx Klan and they showed footage of young children in Klan's families punching and cursing life-size pictures of black children with such vitiolic hate on their faces, as their parents cheered them on. I was so repulsed and disgusted by this action--and the post made yesterday by that 'seven year old' child reminded me so much of that incident. Now to see you applaud this 'seven year old' child and calling it 'refreshing ' to see, only shows to me how reprehensibly immoral you are. You are such an incrediblly loathesome bigot, that I am now officially requesting that no one on this page respond to any further posts you, or anyone else who refuses to identify themselves makes. That is of course after they too hav an opportunity to verbalise their contempt for your actions.....You first entered this board questioning and attacking those who do not believe in the same things as you, and all that I have witnessed from your postings is a profound lack of respect for others, intolerance, no interest whatsovever in any rational discussion. All you have accomplished here is to show how much of an incredibly bigot you are, and how your cherished beliefs not only have not prevented you from carrying out these actions, it has failed miserably in being able to identify them whatsoever, or even show how morally turpitudous they actually are. You are the most reprehensibly abhorrent person i have ever had the opportunity to communicate with - 17:33:43 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

????---Whoever you are ( and I suspect you are the same toilet that posts as Robert T. Lee ) They may be responses from heatens, but at least they will be responses from individuals who speak out against the abominable actions of Robert T. Lee, and justifiably so. - 17:37:21 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:Those last two posts are from me. And they will be the last that I will ever post to either of you. - 17:38:30 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

Steven :RTL and ????<<>> you are sick and despicable. YOU, and people like you, are who make the world the hate filled warzone that it is. You are a bigot, a racist, an abuser of women, a brainwasher of children etc. I think you and Adolf have quit a bit in common. - 17:59:57 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:PETER: I am in complete agreement with your recommendations for the RTL pseudonym. It is clear to any non theist as well as any thoughtful self respecting pro-theist that the RTL is a gross misrepresentation of any pro-theist point of view. So far, disallowing the inanities of prayin and blessin, I have yet to see a pro-theist discuss anything that favorably included theories of a godthing. These type humans can not establish any kind of factual relevance outside themselves for that creator/godthing idea, then when they begin an inner-search for a meaningful response, they seem to implode and insanity appears, so is insanity that state of or a requirement for the reality of that godthing/creator? Agreed, let RTL wallow in his own mess, for he knows not that he does. - 18:14:27 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: The readers o'A.Einstein ever read a passage o'his'n whar he sez sumthin'like, the more he learns the more he kno's there is a godthing. At flittin'about that was one of the stranger things I read sed by a pro-theist. - 20:53:39 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->I too shall boycott RTL, EXATHEIST, TEACHER and any other pseudonym he chooses for himself. No matter what name he uses, his ignoble bigotry is prevalent, and not difficult to see through. I hope others will take up the challenge to ignore him, so as to not give him an audience to spew his hate filled, idiotic rhetoric. - 21:38:16 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:Responding in kind leans the human condition. Censorship challenges the restraint. In rebuke I this boycott. Yeahh all and all if the guy wants ta' spell the name EE'' so becoming of him anyhows. Come on now, hate haunts the mind of him relatively for this fellow. Censorship encompasses a no range , humanisticly speaking. - 22:26:01 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: any pro-monika types here, pro-BC or vice versa may be considered and interested in this site, see what you think. - 22:30:07 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:Hate gonna spew hate irregardless of the boycott, the poster of the little girl tends to this similarly - 22:31:33 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

-->PAM a.k.a. rOB a.k.a. LITH a.k.a. DORN? - 22:37:10 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:CARL-not much interest for me in the political circles. As ole' Clinton wants to save his hide or skin as the site states. In the fight or flee principle of course it bekons this one. - 22:39:37 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..just on its own merit, it is an insightful article. - 22:40:45 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..I have been following this story purely for entertainment purposes. Maybe you will like it to. - 22:43:04 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:to --> What gives with the demanding urgency symbol -->. Ballons in flight go bounding along a 'surface'. "How do you do?" formulates in politeness supposedly,,, as does a polka dot repeating in round-spot patterns. The --> repeats as polymorphism of a pommeled correctness . Of beggar's-lice mine is bilabial. - 23:31:50 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:Of the hatred of the EE' that I find interesting as Max Scheler pointed out, "there is a depth in man that always silently tells him what the 'relativity 'of felt values is, no matter how much he may seek TO COVER it up by means of judgements, comparisons, and induction". And how. For that little girl stunt was a huge distasteful judgemental covering. - 23:47:11 on 11 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->DORN..the "-->" isn't urgent, purely part of my moniker. I neglected to place my name on the post, but if you will note, many people use the same type of "lead in" on their posts. So, is you or isn't you all of the aforementioned? - 0:01:33 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:It is liken in tune with how climate affects hillslope forms through the action of factors like percipitation and temperture on "weathering and removal". Unique landforms are not produced by specific climates; there are innumerable climatic factors in combination and 'lithologies' and structural or stratigraphic relations which will produce the 'same forms'. Of the EE' and his basal sapping, it may be to gullying or to the 'controls' of his base level. - 0:10:14 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:Joette. Any 'lead in' has many shapes and sizes of helpmate and my monkey wrench fits the unctuous of balance, attached in the 'skipping' process. - 0:25:48 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:In addition with regard to EE' , logic permits no shortcuts to ethics. As Bradley whispered, 'Each thing is what it is, and not another thing' and each good must be investigated individually in the light of our intuition of the good that we attribute to it. Very piecemeal procedure as is bigotry posting. - 0:40:45 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:Lastly now with the disasters of a philosphy, in part, due to timelessness axiomatic concepts of the unobserved. EE' is using them while at the same time they are being negated. 'I never be your monkey wrench'. - 0:58:38 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Dorn:I think LEE is right. Why did I say that? - 1:13:22 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Sioned:to the mimic ... Impressive soliloquy for such a howler in the trees of the upcoming leopard spots of hue handed... perhaps, got no head knows just what to do...pistachios turn your fingers red I in willing - 2:11:00 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Sioned:I in willing captured the dalaaji as the daltaya. The faradhi of that refreshes the mind...ku'al, ku'al,ku'al... - 2:30:55 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Sioned:AS thinking pertains to the aaji in howler jaws of cugel, I walked through an invisibile fire; I got burned I remember and still got the scar of the star bear... like the losened connection on your personal monkey circuit, don't need a hammer just to nail it down... I in willing go to the crazy landscapes behind the faces as no request for satisfaction is denied-->openwide howler monkey of this monkey of psi* in so labeled itself. - 2:46:14 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

dana:Why do I get the impression that this discussion room is being spammed in order to cause legitimate conversation to scroll off of the page? I've witnessed this kind of tactic before. - 4:56:29 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

RUSS T PIPES:A thousand years ago in a land called Nabban, a man was hung upside upon a tree for unpardonable sin. This man, Usires Aedon, had proclaimed that there was one true God and thus the Nabbanai imperator had him hung from one of the giant branches of Yuvenis'Tree (Yuvenis was the Nabban god of justice.) Usires of the Lake had his hands and feet nailed to the Execution Tree where he was to hang on display to the Nabbanai populace for nine days and nights. On the ninth night the sky erupted with a blazing red ball which sailed down and destroyed the Temple of Yuvenis a short distance from where Usires hung in torture. All of the priests and judges were killed within the temple as it was reduced to ash and debris. A thorough search revealed that Usires Aedon was gone and the crowds began to cry that it was an omen; the pagan beliefs of Nabban were being punished by God and Usires was taken up to Heaven in reward for his faith. Although many rumors surfaced that in the midst of the confusion Usires was freed by his disciples and taken away, these rumors were silenced and belief in the miracle spread throughout the city. The pagan rulers of Nabban would begin to fade after this monumental event. In the center of the ruined burning wreckage that was once a temple lay a rather large, smoking stone. It was believed by the followers of Usires Aedon known as the Aedonites to be the molten remains of the Nabbanai pagan altar. In the book Du Svardenvyrd , the author responded "I, Nisses, believe instead that this was a flaming Star of the heavens, fallen to Earth, as happens on Occasion." A large section was extracted from the stone and worked by the Imperator's smiths in the Nabbanai foundry. A large blade was created of this unearthly material and given the name Thorn in reference to the abrasive branches used to flail Usires. Thorn was to be wielded by a series of Nabbanai rulers being handed down to each generation until it arrived in the hands of the great knight Camaris. The legends of Camaris and Thorn are many and few places if any in Osten Ard are ignorant of the power of the two. After the death of Queen Ebekah, wife of John Prester, Camaris blamed himself for her death and became extremely distraught. Camaris was last seen leaving for a journey by boat which was lost in the ocean off Harcha island. For many years it was believed that Thorn resided with Camaris in a watery grave. King John's court jester knew the story better than most and was able to inform Prince Josua that Camaris gave Thorn to his squire Colmund of Rodstanby. By brandishing the famous sword Rodstanby was able to recover his family's land and became a rather powerful baron of a particular district. But the land and power he gained were not enough so he set forth on a quest for the riches hoarded by the dragon Igjurjuk in the mountain Urmsheim. In the Founding-year of 1131 Sir Colmund equipped his campaign of thirteen men (although he had left Rodstanby with twenty four men) at the monastery of Saint Skendi at Haethstead. Sir Colmund was never seen again, but many rumors circled including one where he become a king of the ice giants known as Hunen. "Why did I say that", because, because, because, "OH shucks, shucks, shucks, I have a thorn in my written foot as does my little pony, named dana"... Thorn is the third rune in what is believed to be a group of 33. That part is only speculation due to the different beliefs through the years. But, it is speculated as the third rune. Thorn is also known as Thurisaz, pronounced thu-ri-saz. Thu...ri, like rig...saz with "a" as in father. The base meaning to this is "Gateway, with thorns of resistance." It also has been known as Dorn, you can see there are many synonyms for this rune. Thorns can be looked upon in two ways, as a barrier and as a protection or a separator from the "other side" of change. So, there is good and bad in thorn. In accordance to that, thorn is a rune of testing and challenge, as well as protection and defense. To simplify this, I'll try to state it like this. Its Divinatory meaning is: Hardship, painful event, etc. Obviously, this fits Michael to a "t." Its magical uses are to aid in study and meditation and self meditation. I find this amazing because Michael had TOTAL self control and meditation. After researching, all of this is finally coming together. To understand thorn, you must realize all that's behind it. So, it helps to understand where it falls on the tonal axis. It spans from the fourteen (Earthly father), through the four (the place of the Animals...possibly explaining his eating of the dog in the first Halloween),the ten (the mind), the three, the thirteen, and the one. The one is the place of Fire. Obviously the fire explains the RAGE in Michael Myers. Some of the potential negative trends are Demonic Influence, damage, deception, and perishing of enemies. Well, looky what we have here! All of those explain Michael Myers. To help understand Thorn, here is the POEM that goes hand in hand with thorn: A third song I know: If urgency tells me to tie the opponent w/magic Then I dullen the steel of my foes So that their swords will not cut anymore. This poem can explain Michael's influence of thorn. They believed a person was inflicted with this curse so that they could spare the lives of all other people in that "tribe." Here is something you will find AMAZING! Under Christian proselytizing influence, the Latin alphabet was generally adopted, and only two runes survived: the wynn (yes, you read correctly, the WYNN), which looked a lot like a P, and the thorn, which looked like a "p" with a neck splint. Isn't that amazing, that WYNN was one of the runes that survived? Could this explain the fascination that Dr. Wynn has with Michael's powers? Maybe this led to his name of "Wynn!" Weird Stuff. Lastly, I'll leave you with something that could possibly be used for HALLOWEEN 7. The lesson of this rune is to learn you must suffer. Not only literal suffering, but also in the biblical sense of allowing one's destiny to unfold as it should, and allowing one's self to experience all that life offers us. There is talk of "Giants" when talking of Thorn. Thorn is the name given to the Giant. The Giants (not the football team or the baseball team) may seem to be evil and destructive to the Aesir, but they bring about change, and eventually clear the way for a new age. Could Michael finally turn out to be "not as bad as he appears?" After he does "his job" maybe he'd clear up. I'll leave you guys with that last thought. Hope some of this gives you a better understanding on H6. I know this info surprised me a lot and helped me understand H6. I really loved the WYNN part. Thorn isn't just an evil rune. It can be both good and evil. Depending on which way the rune is set, can determine whether it's good or evil. This depends on which way the triangle part of the thorn symbol is facing. You see, it can also play a part in taking the evil OUT of the person cursed with it. This also goes along with what I said they could possibly do at the end of H7. How it can bring about that change it's seeking. You never know, something could trigger Michael to let the evil out of him, that protective rune, perhaps? Anyhow, I also thought I'd let everyone know how the thorn rune can also double the size of any animal for the duration of the spell. A doubling in this size would increase the weight by four times. With this, a gain of 50% over the "creature's" natural strength is probable as well. Could this explain why Michael is not affected by bullets or anything else? Can this explain why he got so BIG between parts 5 and 6? Discounting the fact that George Wilbur put on weight, could this be the explanation? The whole time that Wynn had Michael locked away (the six years) could this curse be building up in Michael? Thus, making him so much BIGGER and STRONGER than ever? I think this seems too coincidental not to be looked at! Look at the great storyline this presents. This finally could explain why Michael can't be killed. He gained all that strength over the years. Once that curse is lifted by that protective rune, I feel Myers would slowly lose all that power and bulk, returning him to a "normal" individual. Of course in the end of Halloween h2o, the female grasshopper Sioned chops off the head of the impressionable little pony. Along with the assault on normative belief patterns-ole' Drano VEXHIB with in willing... davieth, davieth, davieth rusts, rusts, rusts, in the written...along situated together with the EE' skull-niche. - 5:22:18 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

RUSS T PIPES:VEXHIB does not = VEXIB, but my little pony's head is missing ... which= decapitation. - 5:37:17 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

RUSS T PIPES:"Oh my brainwork of neuroscience news letter has vanished inside the dana press"...The Charles A. Dana Foundation is accepting proposals for a program to support the investigation of new clinical applications of neuroscience research. This program is intended to make possible the testing of innovative hypotheses that have the potential, if successfully confirmed, to dramatically advance applications of neuroscience research to human diseases and disorders. Successful applicants will receive up to $100,000 over three years... In willing , I likey for a new jeep axile set of 44, no a Dana 33 in the above and of course a Dana EE''... - 5:51:10 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Jger:My first time here. . . I spend my chat time with other atheists in a chat room found at http://www.irsociety.com. Believe it or not the site is found under a subject heading for Religious, etc. It seems that this Russ persona is a mix of Wiccan and Xian! . . . What utter tripe! . . .. . / / / / . . . . Most everyone here from the UK? I am from El Paso, Texas, USA. Glad to meet all fellow godless ones! - 7:03:22 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Jger:Newbie here again - - Say, what is the difference between being a "theist" and a "pro-theist?" - 7:09:06 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

jger:Anyone here now? - 7:10:35 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Jger:Leaving to come back another time. - 7:11:43 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:JGER--Greetings Godless one, or as we are affectionately referred to as of late 'ignoble atheist'. I'd say most here are from the USof a A with a smattering of Canadians and Brits and Ozzies. Then there is the tken theist, either here to convert or admonish, who seem to come from nowhere at at--geographically, or mentally. This chat rarely works as a 'live' chat but rather by making a post, and then checking back a few hours later or so, and seeing if there is any responses or other comments being made. Stick around for a while and check it out!...The difference between a theist and a pro-theist? You got me. - 12:05:58 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

RUSS T PIPES...:The 2 previos R T PIPES posts were not mine - 12:52:20 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:WELCOME JGER and DANA- I think you may have it there girl! Pisses me off! Were you visiting when NC and Richard (the atheist) were posting? In those days, this discussion could be really interesting. No matter how hard we atheists try now, we have so many interruptions from all the nutcases. I agree with Joette, it's best to ignore them. - 13:55:19 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:RUSS T PIPES- I suggest you post with an actual name as lately someone has been posting under a number of stupid names so such isn't taken too seriously. Although one doesn't have to give out their e-mail address, many of we atheists have each other's so we know who is Peter, Joette, Papasam, Dana, Ron, James, Steven, Carl, JayWilson, Rob of the Roses, etc. - 14:00:19 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:Jger: Theist/pro-theist, the difference as I use the preface, is only an emphasis to attempt bringing attention to theisms unnaturalness. Once that is understood then another point of view of similarity may be used to show that unicorns and godthings are not different. When I first appeared here one of the objections I held was that religious contexts, in general, were allowed too many "givens" and the connotations of theism bears something totally unqualified. That is of course, where is the godthing? The religious adherents are just pro-theists, a theory. - 14:41:34 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

dana:Marlene: I've popped in here on occasion over the last couple of years. Things are worse now than they were last time I dropped by. I'll bet you guys can't wait until school starts again. =) - 17:21:14 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: While it is important that even xtians try to think and o'course say their minds, be it as it may, I still hesitate at its reality or unreality. Here is a speech that may be sort of interesting to some, but surely not RTL types. - 19:13:46 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:RUSS T PIPES. This limerick is dedicated to you. There are numerous wackos, all types, And one calls himself RUSS T PIPES, Somewhat of a ham, He lives only to spam, just one of my ongoing gripes. As I suggested to one of your predecessors, write your comments on toilet paper. You could then put them to good use. - 20:43:41 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..as usual, you provide us with thought provoking articles. I had a long discussion today with a co-worker, who up until about a year ago was a bible thumping fundamentalist, but began to seek answers that could not be found in religion. He has since taken to reading and absorbing as much science and philosophy as he can reasonably get his hands on, and today while discussing the pros and cons of believing/not believing, I came to the frightening realization that there is little in life that can be answered. This may seem melodramatic, but the more I read, the more skeptical I become of everything. Each time I think I am learning something new, I have to step back and ask myself what the writer's agenda is, what is the other side of the story, and why does this person have these answers? I have realized that even one tiny little statement has to have layers stripped away before I can believe/disbelieve what the writer is saying. It is becoming very confusing for me, and most frustrating to realize that the old adage about not knowing anything is so true. Is advocacy a good thing? How does one stay uncorrupted? Too many questions, so few answers. - 20:59:07 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Patricell@aol.com:I want to join Atheism Web. I want to believe that there is no hell and that I can kill someone that I can't stand. I want to steal from people so I won't starve to death and be homeless. I can be rich that way. Yeah there is no God! - 21:02:43 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->Patricell..you must be at the wrong place. Maybe you should visit your nearest Catholic Church to satisfy the urges you stated. - 21:23:19 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: Awhile back some had a good laugh at the forward thinking teaching preparing rebel state o'Alabama, here is another point of view o'that o'so fine'a state - 22:11:12 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:ANY1: sorry 'bout that left out an alabam! - 22:15:15 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: While readin'and browsin'stuff, one of the current thoughts on how to make sense outta'these things and stuff may be in a book titled "Consilience". I haven't read it yet nor really checked into its covers. Its here tho'. An idea I liked a lot but haven't seen much of it, lay in the word "concurrence". {'lay' is that right?or is it lain or laid or sumthin-I see what u mean!} But that is really neither here nor there, that idea that concept, seemed perhaps very common to math maybe unique to math and engineering types I can't really say. But from what I could make out of that idea that thought that whatever- concurrence, it drew me appealed to me in a way so favorably it must be described as the magnetic effect of metal shavings on a paper, you know how the pieces seem to arrange themselves? Don't give up, thats the key, if one does, take a look at RTL, nuff sed? - 22:31:17 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

dana:Carl: Thanks for the link! I had heard about the textbook insert but was never able to get my hands on a copy of it. Why didn't they just close the "message" with a big AMEN? =) I love Richard Dawkins. "We are all brought up with the religion of our parents, grandparents and great-grandparents and by golly that just happens to be the one true religion. Isn't that remarkable!" - 23:40:50 on 12 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:Patricell. The fact that there is no hell does not give you a license to steal or kill. As Joette said, go join the catholic church. You can steal and rob and murder to your heart's content and go to confession and they'll make you clean as a new born babe. - 3:55:19 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

DGreat:Atheists: I normally don't discuss atheism with people who cannot carry on a meaningful and constructive discussion (by this I mean that I try not to oppose someone else's view if he or she cannot handle it). I feel that anything that does not add value to your being by either challenging your thoughts or teaching you something is not worth your while. I've only been visiting this page for couple of months now, and I have to admit that I have not seen this much hatred, disrespect and primitive thinking since my freshmen college year. Is this usually the norm? Do the so-called believers always react in this fashion? Please tell me that people like RTL and Patricell are the exceptions and not the rule! I do not want to stoop down to their level, but I really am concerned about our planet's average IQ - 4:27:37 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:--DGreat--RTL is an extreme case to be sure, but we do get the odd theist in here who does show at least some semblance of intelligence, and the rest pretty well fall in between. There are traits that seem to be common throughout. They usually begin by preaching and rarely direct any post to any particular person--at first but will eventually post to individuals after it is insisted that he does if he wishes to claim any credibility. They evade answering questions. They will attempt to defend their beliefs logically at first, and then when it is pointed out to them that their logic suffers from numerous flaws--they will then deny the veracity of logic itself. They will then become bewildered, angry and very often insulting and nasty-- and I think that this is probably due to fact that they attempt to make the atheist here believe using the same tactics that were used on themselves and they fell for it--and expect others to do the same, as they regarded these tactics as convincing enough for themselves. Then they will usually leave, or come back a few weeks later and start all over again preaching. In their 'preaching mode' it is practically impossible to carry on an intelligible conversation with them, as they will say on ething, the others will then address it, or rebut or refute it--but they will not subsequently address any of the rebuttals, but just start on something else, or simply repeat their original points. It's like they say 'A' , we say 'B' ..and instead of saying 'C' they either go back to 'A' or to 'Q'......sound familiar? - 5:18:27 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

Melissa:CARL: You know . . . what I find hilarious, as well as a testament to the disgusting habit some people have of engaging in "doublethink", is the statement about macroevolution in Alabama's prologue to its biology texts: "This process, called macroevolution, has never been observed and should be considered a theory." Most people who bash evolution (as this message clearly does) are devout theists of the Christian persuasion. None of these people ever OBSERVED their god creating the universe, nor did they observe their Messiah perform miracles and die on his cross, yet they persist in placing their hands together fingertip to fingertip, whispering well-practiced chants to an unobservable plane, in hopes that some admittedly unknowable "higher being" will hear and love them for it, all the while pasting their disclaimers for the unobservable nature of evolution theory in every medium possible. Einstein's Theory of Gravitation fails to explain gravity on the quantum level, yet you see no disclaimers regarding this in any physics books. Funny how sensitive we humans are about our superstitions, but not about how we describe REALITY. - 6:04:38 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

???:ho---hum---Oh how vain is atheism. Or does Peter, Joette, Papasam, Dana, Ron, James, Steven, Carl, JayWilson, Rob of the Roses, etc give atheims a reputation worse than it already is? - 6:13:58 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

Melissa:"They say that when the great flood came the animals all rushed for the hills. The clever ones all got to the top of the hill while the stupid ones were stuck at the bottom and that's why the fossils are all neatly laid out in just the right order!" --- AHA HA HA!!! HA! - 6:32:48 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

Melissa:???: Atheism is vain? Judaism and Christianity - not to mention a few others - are the religions that created anthropomorphic gods. If that's not vain I don't know what is. - 6:35:34 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

Nouveau riche:I say 'ole chaps and gals, who in hell is this Robert T. Lee. Why do you harbor so much bloody hatred for this chap. Your hatred seems to suggest he is some what of a dandy. My experience tells me that an hated person has to be either a high criminal or a saint. This chap must'v done something awfully criminal for you to despise him . Has he broken any laws. Did you hear anything about him in the media? Please expain. ÑÔ§ - 6:50:55 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:N.riche: 'Hatred' please bite your hand that types such a thought! For my part, RTL is not hated, for he is- thus far, at least withholding whatever RTL might be, instead that RTL has been proffering some pre-civilised chaldo-babylonian myths and superstitions that RTL chooses to say are xtian. Obviously, it ought to be, any intelligent self respecting human could but say that they withhold their opinion of what and who RTL may be. Surely he nor anyone could be- for reals, as stupid as his posts may want one to accept. P'SAM says RTL is at least dishonest, etc. - 15:20:33 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: if PATRICELL really wants to at least steal then he was well advised to apply at any catholic place. Did you see one of their holy ones and a secretary pilferred over 26 years $1.6+ million? I did some deciphering and that turned out to be about $1183 a week. To a religious believer does that really appear so bad? In any case, forgiving the perpetrator of that act must not seem too unreasonable. After all who was harmed? The givers of the 1.6 mil.did a blessed thing for the godthing, so they will get their reward. Surely the priestly perpetrator confessed, so the godthing has forgiven him. So if its ok with the godthing, what does a mere natural human, anything human want with punishing that person, if a supernatural godthing says all is good? - 16:35:44 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

dana:??? - Please specify the post in which I furthered the "bad rep" of atheism. Can you do that? Or are you only interested insulting us? (Which makes YOU look bad, not us) - 16:51:50 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

dana:Melissa: You know, I never heard that before about the animals running for the hills. That's pretty funny. =) - 16:52:57 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

dana:Nouv: If you have read enough here to know that we have had exchanges with RTL, it seems you would have read one of his messages... You see, he hates us unconditionally and I for one pity him. The hate he harbors has obviously been nursed throughout his lifetime. And that's just SAD. - 16:58:45 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

Nouveau riche:Everyone here seems to be bloody tight lipped about you. That makes me curious. If you read this message, please contact me at: shelton@postmaster.co.uk. I want to find out who you are. - 17:44:29 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:--Nouveau riche--If you want to check old posts, go up to the URL to the '30' ( this will appear only after you make a post, or just press the 'add' button. Change the thirty to which ever number you wish, and the board will go back that many posts. For what you are looking for, about 300 should be more than sufficient. It also posts under the handle 'Teacher' - 18:40:04 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MELISSA: If you read R.Dawkins response to the 'bama action, I for one agree with his closing line. By all means yes, let the creation tale go before the general public as a matter for a comparative criticism; Criticism being a thought process. I am quite sure, once that nonsense is out of the "sheltered" confines of a church building, it will be clearly seen for what it is, just another red-ridin hood story. But, this will follow, of course, that the problem now faced by the state of Massachusetts, for example, has been fully resolved. I have read some tales of nuns and priests 'swaying' young minds by force to the appropriate answer. Some folks today see the use of that kind of force, they call it the thee "R"s, as a means to make the mind work. Such a learning process might be placed or found to be at a water-shed point. Do we- the people, promote religious ignorance in general or make way for variety that we naturally are? - 18:51:10 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:--Nouveau Riche---If you are interested in gettin g the full treatise, go back to May 9 at 21:34:34 ( 2800 posts should be enough ) where the grand entrance was made, beginning with the words 'DISPROVE THIS IF YOU CAN..... ( you will notice that its very first utterances were a demand to prove a negative--giving one a fair idea at that instant, of the abscence of rationality which was to follow. ) - 19:22:49 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

Melissa:CARL: I read his response. Liked it very much. However, if a biology class is forced to teach Creation "Science" (which generally relates the Judeo-Christian Creation myth), then it should also be forced to include the Sumerian Creation Myth, the Wiccan Creation Myth, the Native American Creation Myths, Zechariah Sitchin's Creation Myth, etc. etc. Now, when in the course of the school year is a biology class to get down to the real task at hand, i.e., teaching biology. Evolution does not REALLY speak of Creation per se, but development - it starts with a strand of RNA and goes from there. It does not claim to have answered that age old question - Who or What created us. The Big Bang Theory attempts that feat. So maybe Creation "Science" should be taught in Physics Class, and don't forget the Greek Creation Myth. But then, when will Einstein and the Uncertainty Principle get their fifteen minutes in the lime light? - 21:04:12 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

Melissa:dana: animals running from the hills quote was from Richard Dawkins response to the Alabama State biology text insert regarding evolution to which Carl provided a link. Dawkins explains many other wacky opinions Christians have about evolution and its validity. An enlightening read. - 21:09:51 on 13 Aug 98 GMT

Jger:CARL: Please excuse me, but the distinction that you make between theist and pro-theist is a bit nebulous. Your point won't be made to anyone else seeing that term. Theist means no more than that a person believes in a god or gods. The prefix Pro added to the word theist cannot mean more than that someone is for or goes along with theism. A redundancy since such a person would be a theist. Not working at being a nit picker, but your purpose for using such a construction as pro-theist puts forth no message to your readers. Nor does it clarify any connotation or commonly held conception of the term theist. Bottom line, my friend, it muddies the waters. O.K? :-) Do any of you ever visit the Atheist Chat Room provided by WBS? It is a live chat room dedicated to atheists. I am a regular there and have been for more than two years. We get the fanatic fundie that wants to save and love us frequently. Haven't had too many of the haters though. Patricell@aol.com, do you actually believe that morality and conscience can only come from believing in magical entities possessing magical powers? If one does not then we must condone murder and robbery. . . You are most certainly a gross cretin and devoid of even a modicum of that thing that distinguishes us from the beast - an intellect! - 5:22:46 on 14 Aug 98 GMT

Jger: Peter, I used the advice on changing the number in the URL to view back a ways too. Tell me, what precisely does the "Show old?" block mean? Certainly not our age. LOLOL! I changed the number 30 right in the "Location" (have Netscape) in the line showing the complete actual URL. . . Was it meant that typing a number in the URL block below is what was meant to go back for old posts? - 5:33:09 on 14 Aug 98 GMT

Jger:See you folks. Going to the Atheist Chat Room on WBS now. - 5:34:32 on 14 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:--JGER--Yes that number indicates how many posts will appear on the board. When you first enter it automatically shows twenty posts, and when you post a message, it automatically shows 30 posts - 12:31:20 on 14 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene..you'll likely get a visit from RTL now:JGER- I doubt RTL would have time to cut and paste on a live chat. Most theists who visit have no intention to discuss their beliefs. Most just like to spam. - 12:37:16 on 14 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:MELISSA- The Zec Sitchin Myth, yikes, let's not go there again, LOL! - 12:39:37 on 14 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:JGER: Spoken like a good xtian, they whose only efforts mean but to limit or narrow or maintain a vague or supericial view of things. Muddy? maybe so, but nevertheless, the connotation of theism is allowed to be there, and while i may have missed the point i aimed at, the word packs a meaning that is still no different than that wherein one means to speak or inscribe, of unicorns and angels. I'll continue to ponder the matter and continue a dialogue that will refer to it in other ways. And thanks for adding your disjunction to this question of mine, it helps the thinking processes, you kno'. - 14:31:11 on 14 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: While the response to JGER may seem somehow emotionally agitated, perhaps this site may add to an understanding of my initial disappointment. Once before I mentioned a why so many folks find a comfort in religious thinking. I pointed to the time humans have spent in unlearned states, as compared to what is now known. - 15:29:31 on 14 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN1: had to step away, but I wanted to point out with the URL and my reference to an earlier position in regards to theism and my effort to distinguish a what or how it is, really just some or anyone saying they choose that term for their reference, instead of simply saying 'they don't know'. - 17:12:25 on 14 Aug 98 GMT

Adam A MERCIFUL GOD§§§§§:Another one bites the dust to dust §§§§ I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that if and when the embassy bombers are identified, we will be able to chalk up all those innocents' deaths to the grand tally of the leading cause of homicide in human history (and continuing to be so today)—religion. The reason I kick god's ass is in self-defense of humanity; based on the megadestructive actions of so many of god's minions around the world, I can conclude that god has this nasty habit of instilling homicidal tendencies. Well, we have outlawed all mind-bending substances as they have been disovered, in large part because an unacceptable portion of those who take them become dangerous to others. Alcohol and religion are exceptions, though, because in being around so long, they have developed quite loyal followings (I am proud to be a disciple of the former, I might add). Only difference with the mind-altering religion is that no one kills IN THE NAME OF cocaine, heroin or angel dust. Because I am for legalization of mind-benders as a libertarian, however, I will not advocate prohibition. I will, however, adapt the Ad Campaign's slogan: "If you take religion, then you're a dope." By the way, I lied a bit earlier—I also kick god's ass because it makes me feel good. - 22:42:12 on 14 Aug 98 GMT

--You know you've found the right religion whn your God hates the same things as you do - 2:58:35 on 15 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:Whomever posted the last post. It's a good one! - 5:06:06 on 15 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:ADAM..So..I don't drink, don't do drugs, not into god..I'm not a disciple of anything. If I'm ever going to kill, what do I do it in the name of? - 5:09:48 on 15 Aug 98 GMT

Jger:CARL: It was not my intention to upset you. . I was thinking that I just might be good enough with my words to make what was in my head visible to you. . . Words are so often so restrictive when one wishes to communicate an idea, a thought, or a concept to another. However, I will add now that your posting of: . . "Spoken like a good xtian" was uncalled for. I am an atheist and have been for a very long time. . . Expressing my thoughts about what I tried to say about what 'pro-theist' conveys to other minds, whether in disagreement with your thoughts about it or not, certainly did not deserve being grouped with a delusional group of people that represent to me an odious concept. . . . (strange reaction - - -) - 8:20:38 on 15 Aug 98 GMT

Arthur Lueders: Name: Arthur Lueders ALue167442@webtv.net Referred by: Just Surfed On In! From: Ormond Beach FL Time: 1998-08-15 10:12:22 Comments: 1)Separation of church and state but can't get GOD off the dollar bill.2)Did the English (and other Indo-European) languages develope from Judeo-Xtian paradigms? Such as the 'Is of Identity'. 'This is That' [example: He is a criminal (sinner etc.)].A logical fallacy. 2 things can't occupy the same space at the same time. Correct statement is: the person was convicted of breaking a law. How to eliminate "To Be" from the English language. To talk in E-Prime (no "to be" usage)is difficult but correct. To learn English as a child is to be programmed into Xtian paradigms. Atheism has a tough opponent even though Xtian paradigms are pure bunk.3) REIFY- to use words to define things into existence that don't exist. The source of circular reasoning. 2 enlightening books : a) The Tyrrany of Words by Stuart Chaseb) The Myth of Self Worth (www.amazon.com - to order) by Richard FranklinI personally have concluded religions and all belief systems are a government sanctioned form of mass compartmentalized psychosis. Compartments of the cognitiveprocesses locked into these circular spheres of verbal thinking without tangible references.(ex. like Napoleon complexes religions are Divinity Complexes).We all know how much War, conflict, oppression, irrational thinking, and ecological destruction the Bible has produced. - 9:54:27 on 15 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:JGER- Carl is gone for the weekend. I think he misunderstood your post. I agree, "pro" added onto theist is redundant. - 13:15:06 on 15 Aug 98 GMT

RUSS T PIPES-----THANK YOU MARLENE: for suggesting I use a 'real' name to reduce the chances of people posting under a 'stupid' name. I am so appreciative of you giving " Peter, Joette, Papasam, Dana, Ron, James, Steven, Carl, JayWilson, Rob of the Roses, etc." as enough examples to put the point across. - 14:04:04 on 15 Aug 98 GMT

--There was a time when no one doubted the existence of God, until the philosophers tried to prove there was one. - 14:18:20 on 15 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:Alrighty then, Russ T Pipes, what your saying is...Russ T Pipes is your "real" name and not a "stupid" one, am I correct? - 18:06:59 on 15 Aug 98 GMT

Änneliese:~~We really screwed up royally when we gave Christianity so many privileges..... - 2:12:49 on 16 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene..and I was looking forward to this movie, sheesh!:ANNELIESE- Yup! ...ALL- Now for my weekly movie report. Last week it was _Contact_ which Hollywood didn't screw up too badly. This week it's _Event Horizon_. A mixture of "new age style qm" and "that good ole time religion". I give the movie (as well as he/she who wrote it) a big ZERO! How dare someone screw sci-fi up that badly! - 2:46:03 on 16 Aug 98 GMT

EX_ATHEIST:For many years, I was once a strict logician. But I have come to learn the slowness of logic at arriving at truth. It takes many centuries of trial and error for logic to arrive at simple truths. In addition, logic is very subceptible, after many centuries, to draw false conclusions. But most importantly, logic is incapable of arriving at many truths. Strict logic is also impersonal. It lacks common sense. The mind of the strong atheist is hardly any different than the computer. In fact, the computer epitomizes the minds of atheists. It is atheists who developed the computer and who has epitomized their thinking processes in the computer. - 4:43:12 on 16 Aug 98 GMT

Rob (Yes, a little more monky business):Buddhists, don't you love 'em ? Had a race with a few monks on the beach yesterday -won by a hair. God speed... until the next time. - 7:57:18 on 16 Aug 98 GMT

RUSS T PIPES - MARLENE....:No. - 13:44:31 on 16 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:MARLENE. I agree with you about "Event Horizon." It was a real letdown. The producers should be exiled to a monastery. - 20:55:50 on 16 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:EXATHEIST. You used to be an atheist. You used to be a logician. You used to be an asshole - and still are. What makes you think anyone here cares? Go back to your theist site. I'm sure they'll be thrilled to read your autobiography and share your illogic. - 21:00:41 on 16 Aug 98 GMT

DGreat:EX_ATHEIST…WHAT? What is it exactly that you want? This is obviously an atheists web site, and you must have a reason to visit it. Are you trying to show atheists the way, or just plain waste their time? If your objective is to unfoundedly accuse and insult people, then you and your colleagues have done a good job so far, so please move on with whatever it is that you call your life. If, on the other hand, you wish to make a statement or prove a point, then I strongly suggest that you start making sense. Statements without facts are not worth anything. Your above post is meaningless in conveying your message (I am assuming you had one). When you say you were a logician, do you mean you actually had an above 75 IQ? Yes most of us are very much aware of the degree of slowness it took to arrive at certain truths. Did you ever ask yourself why? Well I'll give you my opinion (notice that I stated that it was an opinion). Some people dedicate their lives to find the truth, and those people usually make up an itty bitty tiny group. Others, like the likes of you, who make up the majority, decide to stay on the sidelines. Not only do they not support and carry on the studies, but they oppose it as anti-(whatever religion, god, etc…) and they refuse to even think about it, never the less teach it to their children. So do you see why it takes so long to arrive at truth? Some people are holding us back? Hmmmmm I wonder who? - 2:00:40 on 17 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->Which side is God on? - 3:14:23 on 17 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene...beware of the tools of the atheist.:DGREAT- That WAS a great post to X (aka RTL). I just about choked on the "atheist inventing the computer thing". You think he would go near the tools of the atheist! - 3:14:39 on 17 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:Correction----wouldn't - 3:17:08 on 17 Aug 98 GMT

Grant:MARLENE-- Do you think computers laugh at these EX-ploits too? - 3:32:35 on 17 Aug 98 GMT

DGreat: :MARLENE: The computer bit was priceless. I am confused though! If we are responsible for everything in the world such as theft, crime, science, philosophy, inventions and obviously LOGICAL THINKING, why are they here and what are they doing? - 5:05:56 on 17 Aug 98 GMT

DGreat::MARLENE: The computer bit was priceless. I am confused though! If we are responsible for everything in the world such as theft, crime, science, philosophy, inventions and obviously LOGICAL THINKING, why are they here and what are they doing meanwhile? - 5:06:59 on 17 Aug 98 GMT

Don Sagar:All freethinkers owe it to themselves to consider the material posted on www.bestweb.net/~eden. If you can help facilitate the further dissemination of this material please do. An attempt will be made to answer all serious inquires sent to eden@bestweb.net. However, please be advised that constraints upon my time remains an issue. With sincere respect, Don - 5:58:37 on 17 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->DAN SAGAR...you have spent much time on your Eden project, although I have cause for concern when you state that there is "undeniable proof" but in your lead-in you emphazice the word SUBJECTIVE. Undeniable proof would mean OBJECTIVE, so matter how many words you write, there is still no proof of the existence of a god. And it is my thought that it is a large price to pay (you insist it is a small price to pay) to give myself over to a belief just so that I can qualify my own existence. I do exist, I do lead a productive life, and there is no god involved in the process. - 10:50:40 on 17 Aug 98 GMT

Grant:DAN SAGER-- Your site is interesting but seems to me to be pages and pages of salesmanship and only the same old assumptions about a supernatural being. BTW, failure to disprove a claim of something not observable is not the same as endorsement. - 12:19:21 on 17 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:-Dan Sagar--This is all nice and dandy, but if I tried to prove the existence of 'Goombahwambah', attach the same characteristics to him, and use the identical model you have presented, and be just as successful. And any person could do the same for any other claim the wished to make, rendering the entire project as irrelevant a consideration imaginable. - 12:38:51 on 17 Aug 98 GMT

Grant:Oops- Sagar. Sorry. - 12:39:06 on 17 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: And JGER, et.al., if there was anykind of substance or matter to the word "theism" then any and all- as would I, also could say a godlike thing existed and it would be true. I don't know what others know o'course, but I have never seen nor do I know of and I am unaware of any existent evidence of a godthing{can a "nothing" or an empty set be redundant?}. If this point of view is on target then the religious adherents have only a theory and if recent history- the past 2,000 years, is an indicator of that godthing theory, then of that very history it certainly appears to me, that there are only pro-theist types; and the concepts of the forever happening belie and render meaningless whatever the pro-theist says. This is my opinion of religious adherents and their godthing,so- to them I ask again, where is their godthing? - 14:54:17 on 17 Aug 98 GMT

DGreat:Oops, sorry about the double post! - 16:53:18 on 17 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:D.SAGER: Have you read much by Annie Besant? She was a feminist-like female of the late 1800 to the early 1900, I seem to recall that she said the word "God" is just another word for nothing. Do you however mean to take the position it- the god word, is just a manmade concept and it is like any other(as you said we could insert any other word in lieu of it) for the unknown? So it- the god word, is actually a means by which the human mind maintains a sense of order for the unknown? So does this mean that everything is knowable and can be known? Some xtians say only the mormons believe in being godlike, was that also your point of view, that we cannot deny, this is a psychological relativity, that we too are gods? - 17:47:26 on 17 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:GRANT- X must be running a atheist clone otherwise I would think he wouldn't have been able to create his webpage. I'm sure we would have made that type of error an illegal operation. DGREAT- Did not homo sapiens exsist at the same time as other bipeds? As to why..only their god seems to have the answer, LOL! - 19:18:09 on 17 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene..your time won't be wasted:DON- Really! I wouldn't dream of inquiring! - 20:11:39 on 17 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->Clinton's little speech was amusing, evasive, and what one should expect from a politician. Anyone else notice how he stated that he now has to make amends with "his god". What an ass. - 2:41:19 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- I guess whatever the people want to hear...I think I would have had more respect for the guy if he had just said "no comment" in the first place. I think this has cost him his leadership. I wouldn't vote for a guy who's so worried about what the public thinks that he has to lie. If ole Jean is up to something, I think he's say so. - 3:17:32 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:MARLENE--Come on, who would do it with Jean? *S* - 3:31:27 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene..:PETER- Welllll, I don know eh? Someone maybe? - 4:21:54 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Have any of you checked thru'the Drudge reports? Perhaps it was there or a site one could get to from a site therein, it said that one of the reasons JR doesn't go after BC is that he has some "trivia" on her. It said, he knows she uses some call-girl stuff to satisfy her lesbian ways. So, JR exercises some restraint perhaps in order to forego any response and BC, he gets to carry on as always. Here it is, for when it is up,if you so please - 14:36:37 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Rob (Just another Ex-pat heist):O.K, nuff tomfoolery. Heard a good lyric on my discman today... "Some have told me, thoughts they cannot defend. Whatever you want to be, you will be in the end." Something to ponder on as you contemplate your objectivity. - 15:34:43 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: The god reference just further belittled BC supporting his general irresponsible inclination. That bit has a at least a 222 yr.history. When an atheist reviews USA founding papers and such, many or most of those ol'boys regularly made the same reference. That kind o'historical stuff is what makes it easy for folks like RTL, et.al., to think or say as they do. The RTL types simply do not consider questions as, who were these old timers addressing? Are the addressed, learned? Does the then really still apply to now? If yes or no, how so? And, folks as BC he and the others mean to appeal to those innocent and ignorant times for a favorable response. I think that it becomes or will still bear a favorable response today, just because so many people "prefer" that ignorance. History is littered with examples of the ignorant burying their heads in the sand. The godthing reference when made by politicians just asks of the masses- the body politic, to be ignorant, for what, for who, why? As I ponder these kinds of people- politicians, now and of history, it sure looks like they use religeous ignorance, who I hold are those preferring ignorance, in order to do whatever they do. If ever the politician types want an absolute control, they just need to pick any religion and make it state mandated. Are the politicians of then and now really the intelligent of society? Are they really wise, they- as BC couldn't, can not simply sum up their more thoughtful moments with something other than to utilise a term that refers to some impossible unevidenced thing? - 16:31:26 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene..stupid speculations:The talk show host on a radio station here figures, that Clinton will now declare war on Saddam in order to take the heat off himself. I think he'll do no such thing. What do Americans think? - 16:39:00 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Rob, fricative--- Weep no more for treasures you've been searching for in vain cause the truth is gently falling with the rain." ["You Can Never Go Home" ~ Justin Hayward ~ The Moody Blues] splendid - 17:52:15 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Watching and waiting...for a friend to play with... Why have I been alone so long?" ["Watching and Waiting" ~ Justin Hayward ~ The Moody Blues] - 17:53:21 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

My world is spinning around. Everything is lost that I found." ["Ride My See-Saw" ~ John Lodge ~ The Moody Blues] spledid ride see-saw - 17:54:25 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

sple(n) - 17:55:19 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

d(t)...(n) - 17:56:06 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

i smell your air - 17:57:51 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Steven:MARLENE<<>> I do not think that he will declare war on Iraq. First of all, the pres. can not declare war, congress does. He can send troops for up to 90 days without approval from congress, but congress has to declare war. Personally, there are many things going on now that are far more important than the pres. recieving a blow job from Monica, who cares, and who cares if he lied about it. I wish the partisan attacks would stop, so the leader that we VOTED on can do his job. These christian republicans are disgusting and make me quit ill (i.e. Pat Buchanon and co). - 18:03:19 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Puggles check that privacy rake - 18:12:32 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

as the head falls off the keyboard table - 18:13:26 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Gollum's precious is the ring - 18:14:15 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:MARLENE. Clinton doesn't have to worry abput running for political office. He's in his second and last term as limited by law. As for his "God" reference, it's a typical ploy by all guilty people. It amounts to saying "If "God" forgives me you certainly should." As far as Clinton declaring war on Saddam as a cover-up, that's ridiculous. First of all, from a technical point of view, Congress must authorize a declaration of war. Clinton could order troops there as part of a "police action", but he would not do it unless he was sure he had the approval of a good part of the political bipartisan leadership. He may be careless in his sexual activities, but he is pretty sharp where political and governmental decisions have to be made. - 18:19:50 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Steven :PAPA<<>>wow, I agree wit ya mon! - 18:59:35 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

MIKE:Long time no see my unbelieving friends. So how is life without any hope actually? - 21:24:09 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:PAPASAM and STEVEN- I also agree with you but I didn't realize that Bill was on his last leg as president. Thanks for your response! - 21:40:08 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:Actually MIKE, I do have hopes and dreams. My life's not too shabby, how about you? - 21:41:57 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MIKE: no more nor less different than yours I am certain, unless of late you've seen something glorious or heard some booming voices or groveled before any angel like things, then we just saw the same sun same stars as you, how be you with your hope? - 21:44:14 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:STEVEN- I think it was you that mentioned reading the book _Aztec_. I've finally gotten around to reading it and so far I think it's great. Can you imagine those priests when he talked about his relationship with his sister, LOL! - 21:44:44 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- How about you, what do you think will be BC's next move? - 21:47:33 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE.."AZTEC" is one of my favourite novels! Be prepared to get really, really pissed off at religion (not something new, I s'pose) - 21:55:42 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->who is this mysterious Knight in White Satin? - 21:59:11 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: Well, as I see it he just happened to be prez at the right time, what did he do? Some things o'course but did he speak well, did he meaningfully inspire anyone or anything? I don't recall such, so how is he "responsible" for the better times but that he's prez now? The good times just happened in the same way it happens if things go poorly, either are but consequences of the natural progression and coordination of the relations of the many. But as he lied and lies still, be you atheist or non-atheist anyone who is a liar, is not a good person. if Starrs' action does not get him before an impeachment process, the world opinion and that of the USA, seem to mean, he'll just do his prez time left and go away. - 22:13:21 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: "Aztec" fun story, but when I began encountering aspects as reported by some religious and other sources, the authors' research could very well have been anyone of or even the mere compilation of these accounts as it were made into a story. But it was fun readin'. - 22:57:30 on 18 Aug 98 GMT

Mike M..r(s) where s is a fricative constant - 1:56:45 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

in a spirit of philosophical schematism, we may begin by banishing whta are known as indicator words or egocentric particulars (Russell)---'''how''' is your life. This we clearly must do if the truths of science are literally to be true independently of author and occasion of utterance. It is only thus that we can come to be able to speak of sentences, certain linguistic forms, as true or false. AS long as the indicator words are retained, it is not the sentence but only the several events of its utterance that can be said to be true or false... - 2:04:13 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

in Indo-European languages there is a third conspicuous source of fluctuation in point of truth and falsity;;; viz.., tense. Tense terms of tenseless verbs governed by the indicator word 'now',etc.,etc. - 2:08:01 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

NOW verbalize how mike (y) likes his cereal - 2:12:15 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

how is a life ---to leave - 2:13:38 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

Now leave--- 'grant'ed then that we can rid science of indicator words, what would be the pupose? A kind of objectivity, to begin with, appropriate to the aims of science: truth becomes invariant with respect to speaker and occasion ---now - 2:17:38 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

'here' an aim is not to know what the good is but arriving at some relevant linguistic translation of this term in ordinary language. Going beyond emotivism as Stevenson is concerned with the discovery of the'vital' sense of the term good. C.L. Stevenson, "These then, are the requirements with which the vital sense of good is expected to comply:(1) goodness must be a topic for intelligent disagreement; (2) it must be magnetic, and (3) it must not be discoverable through the scientific method". - 2:44:54 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

'now' turn to your own analysis of ethical judgements,dogmatic or not , showing a extent in vary from tradition - 2:47:30 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

tense, in particular, gives way to a four-dimensional treatment of space-time...avoiding indicator words we can resort to personal names or descriptions in place of 'i', to dates or equivalent descriptions in place of 'now', and to place names or equivalent desriptions in place of 'here'. tantamount unavoidability??? scientific language is in any event a splinter of ordinary language, not a 'substitute'...being unavoidable ,though,---'now' 'I' leave or depart from 'here' to the (d)th... under ... .ith , where (l) is also a fricative constant or 'now' really a fricative consonant like r or 'this' is untrue in certain linguistic forms... - 3:05:54 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- I agree about the lying. Personally I would have said, no comment, none of your business or something along that line. I think he could have saved a little face by not lying. I still think it has nothing to do with his job description. - 3:12:54 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- I already have no patience for religion. I think that's why I love the main character in the book. He just pisses those priests right off, lol! I've just started it so I'm not filled in on everything yet. - 3:15:19 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

Grant:MARLENE-- The way I see it, the issue is not whether someone was gnawing on Clinton's privates but rather if his lying about it to the grand jury constitutes obstruction of justice in the Paula Jones case. I think it is deplorable if Clinton took advantage of his position as president to obtain sexual favors from a wide-eyed young white house aid, but that doesn't seem to be the issue. It's disappointing to me that he would exhibit such poor judgement and in a cold and considered manner decide, even with presumably top-notch legal counsel, to perjure himself rather than take some responsibility for his action. I believe it would have been ethical to refuse to answer the question as you suggested, at least as opposed to perjury, assuming that it's legal. I don't know the legal ramifications (maybe Adam will see this.) The issue is clouded by the question of whether Kenneth Starr's investigation has been overzealous, or even a vendetta, but even so, even as a Democrat it will be hard for me to give Clinton the benefit of the doubt on anything after this. He appears to be a man who is willing to break the law. Not uncommon I know, but I don't think it's too much to ask for a president to hold the law above his personal interests. . - 4:24:53 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:To the untitled would-be linguistics professor. Please stop spamming our site. I personally am not interested in your esoteric theories, and I seriously doubt that anyone else is. Get a web site of your own. If it's too difficullt for you, go to the theist site. Just add on a phrase or two telling them how you love god and they'll be glad to have you. - 4:42:02 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSaam:MARLENE, JOETTE. I have just finished reading "Storming Heaven" by Kyle Mills, about a cult trying to take over the US. I think you'll enjoy reading it. - 4:44:50 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:GRANT- I have to agree with you in most of your post. As for "wide-eyed" Monica, I don't. I think Clinton was just a score for her seeing as she kept the dress much the same as he would have, say at a younger age, keep her panties. I think the only innocents in this thing is Chelsea (sp). It must be tough on her. - 14:05:44 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:PAPASAM- I put the book on my list, thanks! - 14:06:59 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

Steven :MARLENE<<>>after your read Aztec, make sure you read Raptor, by the same Author. I loved Aztec and have read it twice, but I read Raptor 3 times within a 3 month period, simply an awesome book. - 15:17:32 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: On the other hand, seein'as a man is but a man wherever the world over, and seein'that BC is an elderly man I thought in the beginning, the old boy can still get at that young stuff- not a bad thing! At that age and if I get sum that young well, hell, I might think there is a heaven. - 15:23:44 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- Although women don't like to hear that type of talk (especially older ones like me, LOL), the fact remains that this is the reality of the sexual situation. The majority of men all over the world and from different cultures find young women attractive. But..if the truth were more openly admitted by women, women also find younger men attractive. STEVEN- Thanks, that one's on my list too. - 16:09:35 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: Older women likes, as you put it, is true, for when I was younger and still good lookin' while us youngsters had at each other, I was regularly teated by the elderly types with fond favor. I think I loved 'em all alike. - 16:21:31 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:MARLENE, CARL. When I was young, we had an expression, which holds true today. "A stiff dick has no conscience." Pardon the vulgarism, but cleaning it up would make the expression lose its punch. - 17:14:10 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

Steven :MARLENE<<>> the good thing about age is experience, something the youger ones have yet to gain. - 17:38:50 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Is that all it was? I was sure I was in love, darn! - 17:49:15 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:SO! Now I think we've cleared up the myth of younger/older relationships being abnormal. I hope! - 17:59:40 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Speakin'of guys n'gals like BC n'Hilliary, whats the difference between a husband and a new dog? After a year the dog is still excited to see you. and: Men are like parkin'spots, how? the good ones are already taken and those left over are handicapped. These courtesy of a female colleague. - 21:38:09 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

What's the difference between a saving bond and a man? Savings bonds mature. - 23:01:15 on 19 Aug 98 GMT

A major bonding part of Tad Williams triology is the understading of the other (s)=fricative ??? where there is the understanding of other (s) cultures, traditions and environments. Maturity is the abiltiy to maintain responsibilities in the challenge mask and option (s) sometimes. Do those savings bonds have 'this' conscious stae? A concurrence of corrisive sublimate... courser of Joseph Campbell - 1:50:48 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

stae (t) - 1:59:58 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

(s)..(t)e - 2:02:10 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

"A refection of the spiritual state of mankind, a dark empty vision overpowered by shallow lust, monotony and destructive desire" - 2:13:20 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

some of 'these' lyrics by Jennings/Dorrian/Bianco - 2:17:24 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

but Bilbo asked Gollum, "What do I have in my pockets?" really not a rhyme-poem - 2:22:25 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

http://www2.pair.com/mgraz/Lear/nl.html - 2:30:48 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

In einer Konversation: Einer wirft einen Ball; der Andre weiss nicht: soll er ihn zuruckwerfen, oder einem Dritten zuwerfen, oder liegen lassen, oder aufheben und in die Tasche stecken, etc. - 2:41:10 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

Tasche=pocket, commit to memory large amounts of poetry= magnum numerum versuum, 'now' depart 'in abditis saltibus' - 2:46:30 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:Anonymous Babbler. Herr Shtoopid. Sprechen dein garbage Spam in ein udder platz. - 3:52:29 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

PETER:--The americans have Bill Clinton, and Canada has 'Turtles' ice cream. - 5:50:04 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

RUSS T PIPES - PETER...:.........And seal clubbing. - 11:29:12 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

Love the Germanic stuff......Last one in, shut ze oven door. - 11:30:37 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:PETER and JOETTE- I awaiting the supreme court decision today. Do you think they'll rule? - 13:27:45 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:RUSS T PIPES- We lack alligators. - 13:29:02 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

RUSS T PIPES........:............Prisioners, today we will change underware. Hut 6 will change with hut 9........... - 13:38:29 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

RUSS T PIPES.........:.....Prisioners, today we will play a game called" mind over matter"......I don't mind and you don't matter. - 13:40:01 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:ANY: Back in 1974 when BC was running for a seat in congress he said of Nixon, "No question that an admission of making false statements to government officials and interferring with the FBI is an impeachable offense." Is this setting a mind over matter query? - 14:26:14 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:NORTHERNERS: So where does Quebec wanna'go now? - 14:28:38 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- The decision made by the supreme court says that Quebec has not got the legal right to separate. But Quebec doesn't really care about the supreme court. - 14:32:05 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: The 'Q' types they are the french ones, rite? So lets say these french types do split away, what or where will their plans take them? I am still confused, though, on how portugal got inserted onto the Idberian penninsula, so any discussion might of this 'Q' thing might makeup a way to understand the portuguese thing. - 15:05:37 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- I don't know about the Portugal thing so I can't comment on that. Yes, the majority of people in Quebec are French speaking. Their laws differ from ours in that their system is based on (I think) the Nepolean Code and the rest of Canada, British Law. This decision today says that is there is a clear answer to a clear question, meaning that Quebec's referendum decision comes down as sucession, then it's up to the rest of Canada to sit down with them and negotiate an arrangement. To me, in effect it says, don't bring this bullshit back to the supreme court. - 16:58:44 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

Napoleon:... "What is history but a fable agreed upon?" - 17:09:38 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: Nepolean codes? as in N.Bonaparte? That personage lost the war. That sort of effort, I mean to say here, smaks of the same problem that I see in religious thinkers, these latter types mean to make the past, today! Who lives the past, nobody of course. Nepolean codes, I wonder if these documents are somewhere on the net? - 17:16:01 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- Where is Joette these days?? I know she is much better at explaining this than I am. I hope she will post her comments. - 17:35:13 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

PETER--:--Little Jojo,,,,little jojo...wheyo awe you?, little jojo???.... - 18:47:12 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: I've generally not held a negative view o'BC, dispite that he has left a trail of refuse wherever he was. Now, I read that he'll attack some places w/bombs and stuff. O'course since he's seeking peace w/his biblical godthing for his lack o'good judgement, well then o'course that godthing wants nothing more than some killing in order for BC to be good again, in its heavenly considerations. - 19:17:16 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

CarL:OPEN1: I forgot to mention that BC will kill some muslim types, so everyone in the USA ought to see his actions favorably. Is this almost an action like a holy war? - 19:21:01 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

Adam ANY PORT in a FIRESTORM ºººº :Portugal was not "inserted" onto the Iberian peninsula; it was part of Spain that successfully garnered independence in 1143. As for recent developments on the world stage, Allah may be akbar, but U.S. missiles are akbarer. Peace through superior firepower! Death to the religious beliefs that cause more murder of innocents than all other factors combined throughout history! God is a cowardly asswipe! - 19:56:11 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE SOOTHSAYER..your post the other day seems to be right on. Two military air strikes, and now Clinton is being accused of trying to take the attention off Ms. Lewinsky et al. - 21:37:46 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

What is Hillary Clinton's favourite river? Da Nile. - 21:38:45 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

What did Bill Clinton say when asked about the situation with Rawanda? "I don't know. I've never met her!" - 21:40:00 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..this site will tell you everything you need to know about the Quebec soverignists, and their attitude. - 21:49:36 on 20 Aug 98 GMT

Little Surfer Girl..:ADAM...you might get a chuckle out of this site. It is probably the best place for Robert T. Lee to hang his hat. - 2:10:32 on 21 Aug 98 GMT

Steven:CARL<<>> I believe the US has a state that still uses Napoleaonic (sp) Laws, Louisiana. They use the same laws and court system that Quebec uses. - 14:52:08 on 21 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:STEVEN: Really!!!?? well I'll be switched! I'll check that out too! How 'bout the upcoming war? On one side we got a liar and on the other a religious nut. The liar has all the guns and bombs and the religious nut, well he/they got no sense. Talk about a lose lose scenario, just gonna end up with dead people. - 15:11:42 on 21 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene..just too lazy to look up the correct spelling:CARL- I don't know. I think something had to be done about the terrorist camps but you'd think that they would be on target with all their smart technology. I understand that one of the missiles landed in Pakistan killing six people. Now Pakistan soldiers are using this as an excuse to shoot Afgahistan (excuse the spelling for both countries) refugees. - 16:09:10 on 21 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: Agreed, lets do something about both negative factors. Don't need religious terrorists nor does the world need a liar in control of such killing potential. The world would be a better world without either on it. - 17:17:35 on 21 Aug 98 GMT

Adam IF IT'S TUESDAY, THIS MUST be PHLEGMISH ¬¬¬ :Steven: Although the necessities of interstate commerce have forced Louisiana to conform most of its corporate and commercial laws to that found in most other states (LA has adopted the overwhelming majority of the Uniform Commercial Code, e.g.), there are some important remnants of French canon law that still prevail, most notably in the areas of real property, family and trust & estate laws. There also may be some differences with regard to evidence and civil procedure. I just wanted to point out, however, that crossing into Louisiana is not like entering a foreign country with some strange legal regime. - 17:55:32 on 21 Aug 98 GMT

Napoleon:Someone has misplaced my Silver Surfer comic books! - 18:18:05 on 21 Aug 98 GMT

Napoleon:Has anyone in the crossing of regimes read "The Teenager's Realistic guide to Astrology"? - 18:32:57 on 21 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: There is a lyin'prez so do we really want to believe very much outta his mouth? Then the ex-ussr couldn't handle the afghanis' and awhile back the usa couldn't the v.congs- who just wanted a united country, so, somebody explain how'sa usa, gonna handle these religiously inspired? (Is this gonna become a job for the RTL types?) - 21:54:09 on 21 Aug 98 GMT

Grant:Where the heck is everybody? Just caught the American Atheists program 'Atheist Viewpoint' on public access television. Anybody familiar with this program? I thought it was pretty good. They talked about current events of interest to atheists in kind of a half humorous manner. I'll be watching for it now in future. - 17:40:38 on 22 Aug 98 GMT

dana:Grant: We don't get the show here.. Are you a member of American Atheists? The July newsletter had an interesting article in it called "American Atheists President Responds to ABC Nightline." Apparently Nightline misrepresented the AA in a story about the disappearance of the Murray-O'Hairs. Did anyone see that Nightline when it aired? - 18:21:01 on 22 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:DANA and GRANT- No, I didn't see that episode of _Nightline_. What was misrepresented? And what station airs that show Grant? I have a dish so maybe I could pick it up if it airs on a regular channel. You'd think the Learning Channel would air it as opposed to alien abductions. - 18:27:11 on 22 Aug 98 GMT

Grant:DANA-- I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the American Atheists. :-) Actually I'm not much of a joiner but they have my interest and I'm going to look them over when time permits. - 18:45:16 on 22 Aug 98 GMT

Grant:MARLENE-- Here the cable companies must make available a channel for the general public's use for non-comercial programs free of charge. It has all sorts of odd programs and some not too bad. They may not censor it at present so there is some bizzare stuff occasionally. There are lots of religious shows, some rock video things, gay shows, etc. Maybe the American Atheists could tell you if their program is available to you. - 18:51:11 on 22 Aug 98 GMT

EX_ATHEIST:>>>>>To what will the wise man liken atheism? It is like those who destroy good fruit trees simply because the trees produce abundant good fruit; It is like bastard sons and daughters who deny the existence of their father simply because they do not know him or know whether he exists; It is like a man who wears a scarf or gloves and nothing more in freezing weather; It is like those who use their air conditioners during freezing weather and turns their heaters on during sizzling summers; It is like the schizophrenic who believes his hallucinations are real and reality is fantasy. So, what does the wise man conclude about atheism? It is pure INSANITY! - 21:15:53 on 22 Aug 98 GMT

Dornen:Grant..... Many of us show Humanist or Atheist or Secular values on Public Access Television.... I do twice a week.....Too bad more people aren't serious about their concerns about the spread of the world's worst danger..... Christianity..... - 22:19:04 on 22 Aug 98 GMT

Dornen:~~~~Carl..... Give it a break!.... Every president has lied...... Clinton is immensely more acceptable as President of the United States than Bush or Reagan... - 22:24:48 on 22 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene...STILL- ATHEIST:DORNEN- Not likely to happen in this area. It would likely be considered as a hate crime against the believers. Freedom of speech is not part of our constitution nor freedom of the press. I see ole RTL is out of the hospital again..or..maybe back in there.. - 0:15:03 on 23 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:EXATHEIST, self proclaimed. You have already been proven to be a sneak and a liar, not to mention an asshole. It doesn't seem to have bothered you in the least. Go back to yuur theist site where they will welcome such as you with open arms. - 0:17:03 on 23 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene. R-A-I-D!:PAPASAM- He likely doesn't attract too much attention there. Like he doesn't stand out in the crowd, so to speak. He's just another drone in the nest of jee-zuss. Here he's at least a pest. - 3:38:55 on 23 Aug 98 GMT

dana:Marlene: Nightline implied that the current AA president (Ellen Johnson) had prior knowledge that the Murray-O'Hair's were going to transfer money from the AA Trust Fund. They also said that AA refused to grant an interview. However, Ms. Johnson says that she offered a Nightline reporter an interview, but the reporter wouldn't agree to the terms of the interview. - 4:50:14 on 23 Aug 98 GMT

WORRIER...........:Why did Kamakazi pilots wear helmets? - 12:46:32 on 23 Aug 98 GMT

for the same reason people have hot water heaters (if the water is hot, why have a heater?) - 13:37:39 on 23 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:DANA- Thanks for the explanation! I suppose their are crooks in every business. I would imagine an atheist organization would be a great target for shows like Nightline since the theists believe we do nothing but "sin". Speaking of TV networks. I hope there are fewer "angel" shows this season! Did anyone watch the new Drew Carey following his sitcom last week? It was REALLY funny! - 19:17:18 on 23 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE..that new Drew Carey show is a rip off of a British show. In fact, some of the comediens are the same as on Brit TV. If you get any comedy channels you will see it there. Now, I watched the first installment of the new OZ season this week. It was its usual "squirm in your seat" sort of fare, definitely not for the weak of stomach. How many installments have you seen thus far? - 20:41:00 on 23 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- I thought I recognized a Brit face on that show! I just finished watching the fifth OZ and a new one's on tomorrow night. Still squirmin too! That Zambeezie guy, wow! - 20:58:55 on 23 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:DORNEN: Yes they lied, except for Ronnie who was the bubble prez, as well as those around them also lie. But now, the people have caught one lying. But still, some of the people prefer or choose to not see or want to take advantage of this situation and amend the freedom process. Some of 'them' choose to say that BC made things in this country better. How? When? I hold an amalgamation of certainties that prevent me from such inane talk as that, instead as I posted the other day, the good and bad times are of the progressive and coordinative actions of all, not one. Religious adherents hold or cling to such a grandiose account. As for the prezes you named, they are facts supportive of reasons for the people to use this BC fella as an opportunity to revamp a few things. After all, life is a persistant struggle to retain freedom. - 15:29:21 on 24 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Perhaps somehow related to the cocaphony of words in my post to DORNEN might be this article. - 16:03:01 on 24 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- Did you watch 60 Minutes on Sunday? Can you imagine what a country like that would do to Bill and Monica, YIKES! - 3:10:14 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

mrs. plumber:I am buried up to my neck in Contradictionary lies I take pride as the kind of illiterature I'm very ape and very nice If you ever need anything please don't hesitate to ask someone else first I'm too busy acting like I'm not naive. I've seen it all I was here first Out of the ground Into the sky Out of the sky Into he firt - 5:44:09 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Inversionwidare: The immense task of nourishing the gods, especially Huitzilopochtli, produced a constant demand for sacrificial victims. The Aztecs solved this problem by establishing the Xochiyaoyotl,or "flowery war." Unlike wars of conquest, its sole purpose was to take prisoners from conquered peoples in order to sacrifice them to the sun. This war was more like a tournament between the warriors of Tenochtitlan (the Aztec capital) and its neighboring cities in the Valley of Puebla-Tlaxcala. All enemy warriors caught by the Aztecs were sacrificed to Huitzilopochtli. Likewise, those Aztec warriors caught by the other cities were sacrificed to the god of each individual city's choice. In this manner, the Aztecs fulfilled their responsibility to Huitzilopochtli as well as all of the other gods (Davies, 96). As the name suggests, the "flowery war" was not a hostile affair between the cities and warriors involved. In fact, all of the participants on both sides saw it as an honor to take part in it and did so willingly. Its name reflects the pageantry with which the ritual contests of the tournament were conducted. Each warrior dressed in his best finery and "displayed rich panaches of feathers and armor, and standards and shields sumptuously adorned with feather mosaic work and precious stones, copper plates, and golden bells (Caso, 14)." The entire event was conducted in a ceremonious manner and it was not at all a shame, but almost a great privilege, for a warrior to become captive. This attitude was a reflection of what the Aztecs thought regarding the role that a sacrificial victim played before and after his death. - 6:48:57 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Napoleon:What! Are you serious Mr. Wormly, a logistical problem with my missing comics. More than meets the eye. There coming to get you Barbra. Look there's one right now! - 7:16:23 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->IVW..I quote from your very interesting post "In fact, all of the participants on both sides saw it as an honor to take part in it and did so willingly." If a person is brought up in a society and taught to be a sacrifice to a god, do you believe they are exercising free will? It is my opinion that they are not, but instead acting as automatons because it is what is expected of them. Do you not believe that there were some Aztecs that would rather "dodge the draft" than get thrown into a fiery pit? - 11:23:03 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Steven:JOETTE<<>> I think the point was made quit clear in the book Aztec, that not everyone felt the same about the sacrafices. Especially the sacrafice of the virgin girl for the summer solastice. They Aztec priests would take a virgin girl, skin her alive, and a priest would have her skin sewed over his body. The girls skin (now on the priest) would where her eyes holes would be, is what the priest looks out of (a mask), the girls hand skin would flap down around the priests hands etc etc. The priest would dance all night, until the morning when the skin started to dry and choke the priest. Anyway, a large percetage of the people thought that that was normal. The Aztecs would eat the bodies of the sacraficed war prisoners, to give them strength. Is this any different than christians? Not really, the christians worshiped an image of a nailed human on a cross, they eat of his body, and drink of his blood. The christians commit ritual canibalism every Sunday, and for some (Catholics) they do it everyday. Christians slaughtered people because they were heathens, pagans, witches, other christian denominations, or just different. - 12:48:00 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:STEVEN- But were not the flowery wars created to appease the gods so that the people wouldn't suffer drought or have weather that would feeze the crops? I agree, the eating and drinking of jeezus's flesh and blood is no different from the ritual eating of warrior's flesh. What to the xtians say....even if one doesn't physically commit a sin, if in their mind they do, they are guilty of that same sin... - 14:49:21 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Steven :MARLENE<<>> that is my understanding of the flowery wars, they didn't even fight, they just manuevered and if you were captured, you were to be sacraficed. Now, all of their wars were not like that. They did actually fight some of their enemies. Also, yes, the sacrafices were for drought etc. but they also ate the limbs, organs etc. from the dead warriors, ick! - 14:56:19 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: That was a troubling thing to see, just yesterday on one of the papers available at the DRUDGE site, I saw an article titled "A Global, Pan-Islamic Network" this was about that bin Laden and I was gonna read it and make a copy for my hs student. today I, and another, went searching for it, it is now unavailable. Perhaps it is just my\our error? People as that 60 min. bit, they can be found anywhere in any society of people, of this I'm pretty sure. - 15:33:25 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

CURIOUS:Joette: (or anyone) Can love be fully explained through the use of logical analysis and if not, how does one determine whether they are truly "in love"? Is it totally subjective? Someone asked me this not long ago and I didn't know what to say. Can anyone enlighten me? - 16:29:52 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->STEVEN..I understand what you are saying in your post about how some Aztecs didn't want to be sacrificed, chose not to remain virgins (great scene, what?) and so forth. My point was that not all people went to war willingly as the other poster had suggested was the case. BTW, any babies yet??? - 17:09:46 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->CURIOUS..you will have to leave your question to the "or anyone", as I am not logical enough to give a concise answer. I tend to associate love more with my instinctual needs (humma humma), and I also don't understand where hate comes from either. I love many, hate none. - 17:12:06 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:SO! CURIOUS is back. How exciting! JOETTE- I think you may be right, love just may be an instinctual need as humans are social animals. Like you, I hate none. If I dislike someone, I steer clear of them but if I were no able to do that then I may become hateful of that person. For instance, if I were stuck in a country like Afghanistan (sp), I would absolutely hate the people in power. STEVEN- Yuck! for sure! I suppose then it was not considered so yucky though. There is something to the saying, you are what you eat like the Jack Sprat ditti. In those times, not knowing the nutitional factors and the fact that metaphysical factors are myth, they maybe had a point. Yuck! All the same though. CARL- It was very disturbing for me too. To think that in this day that such archaic thinking still exsists. - 17:41:27 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: It was astounding to me that anyone in this day and age can say still, that they "do" things for a god. The part that had me listening intently, was the recruiting talk they gave, recall that? Gods land- where honey and milk and greenry and so on was everywhere. And that kid the bomber, accepted that yarn and destroyed himself. Such action could make one wonder if there is a state of mind any can refer to as intelligent, and does it have any prevailing influence, or some such action? - 18:45:47 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Steven :JOETTE<<>> the wife is about to bust, she is really ready to deliver. However, as my mother always said " when the fruit is ripe, it will fall". The due date is the 13th of September, but the doc said that we could any time. I CAN NOt wait, yahoooo! - 19:15:25 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:CURIOUS: Are you the same participant that routinely asked queries that pertained to the impossible? - 19:41:33 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- Yes, and don't forget the (I think it was 70 virgins) and he also added the same number of wives onto that. I would imagine when one lives in such poverty and seclusion as to what the rest of the world lives like, one could buy into the bullshit. - 19:56:32 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: But Marlene!!! That was the only heavenly reference I liked, wasn't at least that part true? - 20:02:12 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..you are a pig! lol! - 20:58:49 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: I did wonder tho'on that virgin thing, was a fresh batch part o'the deal or was the original batch in a constant state o'virginity? Or since I'd be in heaven would such a concern ever enter whatever kinda'mind or exactly how would all that work? - 21:17:30 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: Then there was that wife matter. Does a fella get to select from some offer or were they just a giving by the god of that land? Or were they gonna be of those a fella has seen and once wanted to experience, like the sports illustrated swim suit thingys? Do you see how confused this can get? jist some ponderin's - 21:39:34 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL...why wait? Do you don't need to wait to get to heaven to taste the forbidden fruits. You tend to ruminate on such matters from time to time, which is okey dokey with this smokey, but I wonder why you don't exercise your free will, or this case, your free willy. (hahahaha) - 22:16:20 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: this has been a chuckler and a lighter moment, who would we laugh at and make fun of if it weren't for the ways of the religious believer? - 22:39:04 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL..ah yes, but at times the religious believer makes me want to cry. For instance, 2 weeks ago in this community, a 12 year old boy drown in a dam, and his body became trapped in a sluice. Several hours later, a police officer also met the same fate while trying to retrieve the boy's body. It took several days before their bodies could be removed, and it was a tragedy for the whole community. However, tonight in my local newspaper, some dough head has proclaimed that this was God's way of uniting our community, and that these two people did not die in vain. Pissed me off big time. They did die in vain; all it would have taken for them not to die is a $20 grate placed over the opening of the sluice. God? HUMBUG! - 22:54:49 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: Funny in a ha ha way yes they are that, and on a serious note and way, they are one seriously sorry ignorant bunch and definitly not funny. - 22:58:50 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Inversionwidare:Historical note: AOS in sense 1 was the name of a @{PDP-10@} instruction that took any memory location in the computer and added 1 to it; AOS meant `Add One and do not Skip'. Why, you may ask, does the `S' stand for `do not Skip' rather than for `Skip'? Ah, here was a beloved piece of PDP-10 folklore. There were eight such instructions: AOSE added 1 and then skipped the next instruction if the result was Equal to zero; AOSG added 1 and then skipped if the result was Greater than 0; AOSN added 1 and then skipped if the result was Not 0; AOSA added 1 and then skipped Always; and so on. Just plain AOS didn't say when to skip, so it never skipped. For similar reasons, AOJ meant `Add One and do not Jump'. Even more bizarre, SKIP meant `do not SKIP'¡ If you wanted to skip the next instruction, you had to say `SKIPA'® Likewise, JUMP meant `do not JUMP'; the unconditional form was JUMPA® However, hackers never did this. By some quirk of the 10's design, the @{JRST@} (Jump and ReSTore flag with no flag specified) was actually faster and so was invariably used. - 23:33:32 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Inversionwidare:LITH Spam Usernames In an effort to protect the interests of the LITH members, and in response to complaints regarding unsolicited commercial e-mail, the LITH system adminstrator has decided to protect [your] account from receiving e-mail from these identified e-mail addresses. This list will be updated regularly. The list is whomever ??? - 23:37:31 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Joette...can we just call you Sybil?:-->rOB, PAM, LITH and now Inversionidware...for a moment this morning you spoke of something of historic interest and wonderful clarity. Now you are just being silly again. Which of you is the real person???? - 23:42:03 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

;) - 23:45:13 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Inversionwidare:Closed-form equation of non-linear of independent variables of the if function format. If (condition true; then, else). Condition can be >, <, or =; terms can be constants, symbols, or expressions. If function can be vested WFtr= ASIN (SINwt)/Pi/2). WFtr produces waveform triangle. A peak - peak amplitude of +/-1, using (SIN), (ASIN) and Pi functions; wt is of course in r , which is radians - 23:46:54 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

testing::o..... - 23:47:10 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

Good Will Hunting..:and don't forget about the theory of relativity! - 23:50:20 on 25 Aug 98 GMT

- 0:04:33 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

Inversionwidare:Joette ... Abstraction is a volitional act? Yes but you do something else volitionally---> abstract volitionally, but you do not will it directly the first time . Do you know what you will? Your answer and the observed similarities, 'this' is the process of abstraction, and consciously a large number of people never grasp that 'that's' what the process is. Engaged 'you' are in it once you begin to observe similarities. - 0:19:47 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

mrs. plumber:EllA this 'smell'(y) closes that Horus eye of 'yours' in an lounge act. Truth covered in security I can't let you smother me I'd like to but it wouldn't work Trading off and taking turns I don't regret a thing I've got this friend, you see Who makes me feel And I wanted more Than I could steal I'll arrest myself And wear a shield I'll go out of my way To prove I still Smell her on you Don't, tell me what I wanna hear Afraid of never knowning fear Experience anything yoy need I'll keep fighting jealousy Until it's fucking gone I've got this friend, you see Who makes me feel And I wanted more Than I could steal I'll arrest myself And wear a shield I'll go out of my way To prove I still Smell her on you Truth covered in security I can't let you smother me I'd like to but it wouldn't work Trading off and taking turns I don't regret a thing I've got this friend, you see Who makes me feel And I wanted more Than I could steal I'll arrest myself And wear a shield I'll go out of my way To make you a deal We've make a pact To learn from who Ever we want Without new rules We'll share what's lost and what we grew They'll go out of their way To prove they still Smell her on you They still, smell her on you Smell her on you - 0:28:33 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

goddammit! you want poetry? well, here is some REAL poetry goofball!:ON THE MASSACRE OF THE CHRISTIANS IN BULGARIA. CHRIST, dost thou live indeed? or are thy bones Still straightened in their rock-hewn sepulchre? And was thy Rising only dreamed by Her Whose love of thee for all her sin atones? For here the air is horrid with men's groans, The priests who call upon thy name are slain, Dost thou not hear the bitter wail of pain From those whose children lie upon the stones? Come down, O Son of God! incestuous gloom Curtains the land, and through the starless night 10 Over thy Cross the Crescent moon I see! If thou in very truth didst burst the tomb Come down, O Son of Man! and show thy might, Lest Mahomet be crowned instead of Thee! Wilde, Oscar. 1881. Poems. - 0:43:44 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene..:rOB- STOP! Your really an intelligent person, why all this nonsense? Abstraction or distraction, it's all a pain in the ass. - 0:47:28 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

dana:Marlene: A week or so ago someone (maybe even the culprit?) posted a link here to a page that generates paragraphs of nonsense. I am pretty sure that is where this person is getting most of his material. I haven't found the page again, but I do remember you could choose from quite a few topics. - 3:28:22 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:inversionwidare and mrs plumber. Why don't you two join hands and ride off into the sunset together? You make a great pair. You could spend the rest of your lives spamming together. - 5:03:04 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

AN EX_ATHEIST:>>>>>Teacher, I have perceived the absolute foolishness of atheism and I have turned from atheism and place my faith in Christ. How shall I live my life now? Good for you ex_atheist. Here's how you should live your life: Walk no longer...as the atheists walk, "...in the futility of their mind, being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. But you are not learning Christ in this way, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth. Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH to your NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another. BE ANGRY, AND YET DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity. >>>>>He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with those who have need. Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.>>>>> Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to others, tender-hearted, forgiving others, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you. >>>>>THEREFORE be imitators of God, as a beloved child; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them; for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as a child of Light (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret. But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light. For this reason it says, "Awake, sleeper, And arise from the dead, And Christ will shine on you." Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, speaking to other true Christians in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord; always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father; and be subject to other true Christians in the fear of Christ. >>>>>If you are a female and married, be subject to your own husband, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. >>>>>If you are a married male, love your wive, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. So the husband ought also to love his own wife as his own body. He who loves his own wife loves himself; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, because we are members of His body. FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband. >>>>>CHILDREN, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise), SO THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH YOU, AND THAT YOU MAY LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH. Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. >>>>>Workers, be obedient to those who are your employers, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. With good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men, knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free. >>>>>And emplyers, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him. >>>>>Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE; in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints.." - 6:40:27 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

HI EX_ATHIEST>>>>:>>>>>Your wonderfull post changed my mind instantly. People are swayed by junk mail just before voting time too. What does that make me? - 13:15:41 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:ExAtheist: "The word of god" you say, but as always, how does one know it is the godthing that one hears? So far the best godthing I've heard about was gonna satiate a guy with more pleasure and happiness, viz., for me this would be female availability, so I don't really need saints nor a lot of garb on me. Keep that helmet thing please and as for brestplate, if need be I can get rid o'that myself, in no time 'tall. However, I do like your presentation of what is truth, my kinda 'talk. Your posts bring me laughter and mirth, and your preferred childish ignorance is sad to see. - 15:31:49 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Ignorance as it manifests itself in any form of a religion and thoughtlessness as it oft times appears in a society, both are big time movers of the medium of exchange. For example of the latter, here on the UC Berkeley campus a student said to be studying nuclear engineering, awhile back reports have it that he had at least an awareness of a murder. A quite young black girl was by one news account molested and beaten to death. Berkeley students now protest that persons'presence among them, setup all along the street outside are seven or so disks for live tv-reports. They look very expensive. I think the ruckus all started with some very thoughtless statements uttered by the fella while on another public medium of communication. Its amazing how ignorance and stupidity are so expensive. - 19:41:44 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->CARL...has the student alleged to have been involved in the murder paid his price to society? - 22:01:10 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- Does this mean the promise of virgins has you considering islam? Do you realize that you have to memorize the koran to qualify? - 22:07:01 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: no, per reports and the laws of the state wherein the deed was perpetrated the student was not involved in any way except that of probably knowing of the deed, afterwards. The problem arose with the thoughtless/tasteless things he said of the deed at a later time. Then too, I am of the opinion it has become a racial contest. - 22:31:34 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: That was some glancing type reading; the person accused is now on trial. - 22:37:56 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: I have never found a good reason to even pay for that pleasure let alone take-on that kind of silliness, beautiful and attractive women are everywhere, by themselves. I used to think I could smell them. - 22:55:08 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:EXATHEIST. I have read somewhere that your boy jesus was a bisexual, that he regularly had sex with the harlot Mary Magdalene, and that he enjoyed romps in the hay with his twelve disciples. Can you prove that this is not true? I know he was a murderous war mongering individual, as quoted in your bible )See Luke19-27, Luke 22-36, and Matthew 10:33:36, but I guess he and his boys were reluctant to talk about their sex lives. - 23:35:37 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

if only some would practise what they preach:"Be kind to others, tender-hearted, forgiving others" - 23:49:23 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

Sigmund:EXATHEIST. Do you have a normal sex life or do you feel compelled to masturbate because being with a woman would make you feel unclean? Or have you had yourself castrated to remove all temptation in honor of jesus and st paul? Your postings are the ramblings of an unsound mind, probably due to an Oedipus complex. - 23:53:28 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

the operative words of Robert T. Lee aka Teacher aka Ex-Atheist...the man who hates everyone:"full armor", "flesh and blood", "HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS", "taking up the shield", "THE HELMET", "flaming arrows", "the sword" - 23:56:30 on 26 Aug 98 GMT

and we all know where Robert T. Lee aka Teacher aka Ex-Atheist stands on the issue of sex...he does so like to include it in his postings:"having cleansed her", " SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH", "own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it", "members of His body" - 0:03:22 on 27 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- Well! I was worried you were becoming embroiled in islam just for those virgins, lol! I just finished watching a program on the "Brotherhood" cult. There is a recruiter for them working on the Berkeley campus going by the name of Johnathan. They wear beards and ride bikes and spout the same type of drivel as RTL. Have you seen this guy? - 2:44:03 on 27 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE..I watched that report as well. You would think that since they recruit at universities the combined intelligence would be used to recognize Jim Roberts for the paranoid individual he is. Most disturbing. - 11:29:56 on 27 Aug 98 GMT

http://www.student.wau.nl/~alwin/eek/friends.html - 12:44:10 on 27 Aug 98 GMT

Eek also EE->k - 12:46:31 on 27 Aug 98 GMT

I'D GIVE..:http://www.student.wau.nl/~alwin/eek/friends.html THE FLICK - 12:51:25 on 27 Aug 98 GMT

Napoleon:Nevermind. Oh Mr.Wormly you do like the back cover. You don't say Cooper but how can we recruit from the basement. Barbra, get a grip girl! - 12:53:38 on 27 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- Just goes to show that "intelligence rating" isn't an exact science. Such a simple deduction and they can't figure it out! - 15:18:36 on 27 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: The Berk.campus is now and always has been a very conservative state institution. Groups as the one you mention thrive here. They don't, however, run around waving swastika flags or nothing as that, nor do these types join with the bible thumpers out and about. But they are in places where only the right choice might be recognised and allowed. - 15:34:08 on 27 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:CARL- Expand on that last statement.... - 18:04:00 on 27 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:MARLENE: howsa'bout somethin'comparative? As mayhaps a programmin'process? - 20:03:32 on 27 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:--->CARL! CARL! I found this site just for you! - 21:46:22 on 27 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:JOETTE: Thank ya kindly ma'am, but I am really a natural kinda'guy. My fantasy, if that is what one calls such, is poetry. I still find the memory and images of one the lovilest females I had the good fortune of knowing, still an inspiration for an occassional poem. Sometimes I see someone and I can but go up to her to speak to her. - 22:44:10 on 27 Aug 98 GMT

EX_ATHEIST:Let whatever it is that has been predestined to befall me, befall me, in the way of corporeal adversity or curse, whether it be physical, mental or spiritual. And if it has been determined that such is to last the duration of my life on cursed earth, let it be if it must be. But please, please, please - don't allow me to fall under the awful heathen curse of atheism or nonbelief in the Almighty God - my Maker! Beause the grace of God will more than compensate for any adversity I can suffer. But who can free himself from the grips of eternal hell which GOD will definitely bring upon unrepentant atheists and nonbelievers? - 23:06:54 on 27 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->ROBERT T. LEE...you been watching some evangelical TV station lately? I don't think you could recognize, in yourself, the mental adversity that has befallen you. - 23:52:25 on 27 Aug 98 GMT

Adam HELL HATH NO FURY LITTLE ANIMALS İİİİİ :Hey, Ex from the Text: Your so-called "god" is a sniveling wimp bastard who continues to fear me! How does it feel to be a pussy's parishoner? A coward's choirboy? The evangelical of the ineffectual? What delusional affliction has caused you to cede your intelligence to the childish and primitive passions of mythology and ignorance. Heed the words of the TRUE ALMIGHTY SEUSS: "To eat these things," said my uncle, "you must exercise great care. You may swallow down what's solid...BUT...you must spit out the air!" (My Uncle Terwilliger on the Art of Eating Popovers 16:11). Your god's a fucking pansy weasel who incites his clergy to molest children. I'll kick his pedophilia-perpetuatin' ass, anytime, anywhere. Loser! - 0:20:22 on 28 Aug 98 GMT

EX_ATHEIST:>>>>>Read the posts of PapaSam, Carl, Adam, Joette and the rest of the ignoble atheistic heathens here, and should I say more about how heathenistic atheism is? This is part of the reason I turned from atheism. - 1:58:19 on 28 Aug 98 GMT

I only know one song, so I sing it all day long....day long....day long...day long.... - 2:26:05 on 28 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:RTL- I think the term "heathenistic atheist" is rather redundant. Mind you, anything you post is the same. - 3:19:41 on 28 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE..au contraire mon ami. A heathen has a religious connotation, does it not? I am an atheist, but I certainly am no heathen. - 14:43:28 on 28 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:XATHEIST: As you splash about in "your" imaginary cesspool and attempt to understand those and that around you in the terms of that lets rename it your septic tank, for this seems most appropriate to the ideas you cling to, well, in order for you to even begin to cleanly clearly learn what I am up to and about to do, you gotta cleanse your mind of an imaginary godthing. It is a very possible endeavor as the process already happens, but you simply choose to reject its naturalness. As a godthing adherent you are just as foolish as that young muslim bomber who destroyed himself to be in the godthings land o'milk and honey, oh and lets not forget the women, nothing could be a heaven without a woman. (but women are here now) So xatheist stop being silly and leave the dark side, come back to the goodside. - 17:25:03 on 28 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene....I said what I meant and I meant what I said...:JOETTE- At one time I thought he had a religious connotation also and can have but it is also used to describe an atheist "a person who has no religion or culture, unenlightened person". Hummmm....this gets worse..heathenism.."lack of religion or culture, barbarism". Does this mean the theists are calling us elephants? - 20:39:44 on 28 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Just checked on theochat they are goin'nutz there, via all their blessin', prayin'and crying stuff! Ninety five percent of the world holds that something supernatural is somewhere, eh? It is an incredible statistic, no wonder so many say they find comfort in words and ideas composed by savage barely not cavemen of long ago. They even say those old cavemen were more knowledgable than modern type humans. Reading and thinking is dead! Only a few will control, guess I' better become a pope or something close, maybe a prophet. Very sad that so many can be so wrong. Maybe fantasy is good? - 21:36:19 on 28 Aug 98 GMT

"Fantasy love is much better than reality love. Never doing it is exciting. The most exciting attractions are between two opposites that never meet." -- Andy Warhol - 23:34:01 on 28 Aug 98 GMT

Tom:Hey you people who think there is no God please go to http://www.av1611.org/hell.html and try to get an idea of where you are going!! Although the Bible says that human minds cannot even begin to comprehend the horror that will be in hell. The sad thing is that you athiests are so blinded by satan that you are literally on the highway to hell like sheep being led to the slaughter. I pray you find the Lord Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness before it is to late!!!! - 3:18:25 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

Grant:TOM-- You poor guy. It must be frightening to believe there is an all powerful being waiting to do that to you if you make a false move. - 3:28:54 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:GRANT- This is the really stupid thing about the xtian religion. There are thousands of ways to make it to their hell but very few ways to get to their heaven. TOM- Who's to say that I won't see you there. - 4:22:49 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:TOM I know where I'm going. I've got my grave picked out. Is your jesus going to send a couple of angels down to fly you to Disney Heaven? - 6:24:10 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:----- TOM------You have done a good job in warning these people. The sad thing about it is: You and I are dumb, but we know what lies ahead for the unrepentent atheist; they are educated, but they are unaware. Its amazing to realize that what is considered by man to be education is ignorance, and what is considered by him as ignorance is knowledge and wisdom. - 12:39:29 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

RUSS-T-PIPES..........: The Lord's Prayer.............EBONICS ENGLISH...................Big Daddy's Rap The Lord's Prayer.....................Yo, Big Daddy upstairs, Our Father, who art in heaven.........................You be chillin Hallowed be thy name......................So be yo hood Thy Kingdom come.....................You be sayin' it, I be doin' it Thy will be done........................In this here hood and yo's On earth as it is in heaven............................Gimme some eats Give us this day our daily bread.........................And cut me some slack, Blood And forgive us our trespasses......................Sos I be doin' it to dem dat diss me As we forgive those who trespass against us...........................don't be pushing me into no jive And lead us not into temptation.............................And Keep Dem Crips Away But deliver us from evil.................Cause you always be da man, G For thine is the kingdom, forever......................Straight up Amen - 12:52:38 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

LL-DISAINTRIGHT:Yo, jive RUSS-T-PIPES......... You prove you atheists folks ain't cool. Atleast you describe a lowly nigger who prays and believes in Big Daddy. But you jive white necks try to diss him. - 13:42:07 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

RUSS-T-PIPES>>.....: It's a sign from God....................Two different priests in two different cars are driving through the countryside, when they get into a car accident. Both cars are wrecked. Amazingly, neither cleric is hurt. After they crawl out of their cars, the first sees the other's collar and says, "So you're a priest. I'm a priest too. Just look at our cars...".................................The second priest says, "There's nothing left, but we are unhurt. This must be a sign from God. God must have meant that we should meet and be friends and live together in peace the rest of our days."..................................The first priest replies, "I agree with you completely. This must be a sign from God." He continues, "And look at this. Here's another miracle. My car is completely demolished but this bottle of wine didn't break. Surely God wants us to drink this wine and celebrate our good fortune."...............................He passes the bottle to the other priest. The second priest, agreeing with this generous sentiment takes a few big swigs, and hands the bottle back to the first priest. He takes the bottle, immediately puts the cap on, and hands it back to the second priest, who asks, "Aren't you having any?"............................The first priest replies,........"No ... I think I'll wait for the police to join us." - 13:52:45 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->TOM..so good of you to join us here on the highway to hell. I read the information contained on the site you directed us to, and it is fraught with just bits and pieces of information that might lead a non-critical thinking person to understand it to be fact. e.g. Dr. Rawlings claims that he has had several patients clinically dead. That doesn't say much for his skill as a surgeon does it? When they are being brought back to life they screamed "I am in hell. Please help me!" Of course, anyone who wants to live and is physically suffering under a surgeon's knife would of course describe that as being in hell. "Hell" has been a popular adjective for eons. How could they be screaming if they have been anesthetized? Does your Dr. Rawlings do surgery without it? Scary... The page also claims that Jesus gave the location of hell, but all that was there was a bible quote. No location cited. If it were actually a true, physical place, would it not have been discovered scientifically by now? If you believe everything you read, without digging further for facts, of course a page like that would frighten you. It only made me shake my head in wonder. - 14:11:30 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->ROBERT T. LEE..you decribed yourself and Tom as "dumb". The Webster's Dictionary definition of "Dumb" is: "lacking the normal power of speech. Naturally incapable of speech. Not willing to speak". So, you are not dumb, you are just stupid. - 14:15:24 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene..allah is da mon:LL DISAINTRIGHT- Ahhhh...."lowly nigger". I think "Nigger" is a Ebonic word but the the adjective "lowly" is not. SO, boy, you not the bomb you think you are. RUSS T PIPES- Tupac would've been proud. You go! - 14:24:42 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene..on Tom's subject:JOETTE- I was watching the Sally Show for a bit yesterday and the topic was miricles. They had an "expert" to talk on the topic, "a man of science", a psychologist who is a practicing jew. He said that scientists "close their minds to the miracles god performs" and he thinks in a few short years that "science will discover that miracles exsist and their creator exsists". IMO, anyone can play psychologist as long as they have some type of certificate in their hot little hands. It's sad that someone like this is practising. - 14:32:20 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->MARLENE...Dr. Laura is a perfect example of what you were talking about. I can't even listen to her anymore. She is so into religion now that she can't be a psychologist anymore. "Trust in God, but show me the money!" - 15:10:41 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

dana:Joette: Ewww.. Dr. Laura gets on my nerves. =) - 15:31:03 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:JOETTE- I just went out to the local store and on my way I heard this advertisement for the Dr. Laura show. Is she an ass or what! She was telling this woman to give up her child for adoption because the woman wasn't married and the child didn't have a father in the home. The woman said no, she wouldn't give up her child and that she was raised in a home without a father. Dr Laura said, "She how you turned out!". She's an absolute idiot! - 15:34:05 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:DANA- Not only does she get on my nerves, she pisses me right off! Her laugh is like nails on a blackboard too! - 15:36:40 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

dana:I can't believe RTL is still posting as EX-Athiest. Why does he still pretend that he is two (three or four?) people? I mean come on, he doesn't even bother to give them seperate writing styles. I would bet money that he is also "Tom." I've been to the page that page before (the one that "Tom" posted). I even have it linked from my page. It's hilarious! Especially the news article about these guys digging a hole to hell. There is a related sound file circulating that is supposed to be a recording of the "thousands of screaming humans" that the guys in the article heard. - 15:42:46 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->DANA..RTL is so thick that he even uses his URL when posting as Ex-Atheist. It's like a bankrobber who stands in line with a bag over his head (per Dumbth News - Skeptic) - 15:49:05 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

Grant:DANA-- I loved that part- about digging into hell. Thats some great stuff. I wouldn't be surprised at anything RTL does. He seems to feel justified because God is on his side. He may lie for God if necessary. End justifies means and all that... - 15:56:55 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

dana:I'll try to locate that sound clip for you guys. It's a hoot. =) - 20:52:43 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

dana:Joette: I just noticed that he even says on his page that he uses the handle "EX ATHEIST" on PowWow. Doh! =) - 22:03:43 on 29 Aug 98 GMT

ADAM Oh, where, oh where has my savior gone...:TOM NUMB: Find the lord Jesus Christ? Is he lost? Where did you last have him? Retrace your steps, mythology eater! - 0:23:50 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

DGreat:I see nothing has changed! When are religious people going to start answering questions clearly and directly? When are they going to start thinking? And most importantly, when are they going to stop posting or linking the stupidest stuff? TOM, RTL whoever: Are you for real? People howling underground and somebody recorded their scream??? If hell was so hot as described, how did anyone get close to it and why the recording equipment did not melt? Yes I know you are not going to answer this question like every other valid question that was asked of you and of your colleagues. So moving on, I, personally, had a near death experience and I saw no god, no prophet and no devil. The gray color came first, I fell down, I fractured my wrist and did not feel a thing, I felt a great sense of relief and finally there was NOTHING. I am aware of all logical explanations, but I like to hear the opposite view, so what is your explanation? - 4:13:38 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:DGREAT- I also felt quite calm and like you, after that nothing, until of course I heard the most rude nurse in the hospital calling my name. Of course that could have been a glimpse of hell, lol. - 4:23:43 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

RUSS-T-PIPES - - -LONDON BUS DRIVER'S LORDS PRAYER.......:Our father who art in Hendon,.... Harrow Road be thy name, Thy Kingston come,...Thy Wimbledon....On Erith Road as it is in Hendon....Give us this day our Berkhamstead,...And forgive us our Westminsters, ...as we forgive them that Westminster against us;....Lead us not into Euston station,....But deliver us from Ewell....For thine is the Kingston, Pearly, and Crawley....For Iver and Iver, Crouch End. - 11:50:22 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

bleeding, bloody awright, bloke - 13:03:09 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

RUSS-T-PIPES..This is absolutlly 5 star....:....http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/buchenwald/images/shrunken.jpg - 13:39:05 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

Joette..btw, I told that car accident joke two months ago..:-->RUSS...what makes it *****? The subject matter is so distressing that I can even read it. Since you want all the "chocolates" wiped out, do you also deny the Holocaust happened? Would you care to visit my grandfather's grave, merely one of Hitler's 12 million victims? - 15:47:23 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

DGreat:RUSS-T-PIPES: Forgive me but I fail to see your point. I've seen better sites-about the same subject- in both display and contents. I am not sure if you are being serious or being sarcastic. MARLENE: I guess god does not want to save our lost souls huh? Have you ever fainted though? Now that was eerie. I actually was engulfed with white light. If I believe of an after life, I guess, I would have thought that I was on my way there. It is the weirdest feeling! You know you are not dead, but you cannot comprehend the state you are in. I was terrified and overwhelmed by the fear of waking up and not finding my legs, my arms, my face, just the like the novel "Johnny Got His Gun", because that was my favorite book. I saw horror all right. It was in the eyes of the surgeon and the 4 nurses that were hovering over me. - 16:33:45 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

Joette...completely off topic:-->Has anyone read the book "Amercian Psychopath"? It was banned here in Canada and so I am wondering if anyone would consider sending me a copy? - 17:47:34 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

ROBERT T. LEE:A CHALLENGE TO ATHEISTS, AGNOSTICS AND NONBELIEVERS:>>>>> I hereby challege any atheist to name any genuine CHRISTIAN of old who believed that the earth was flat. Please supply concrete proof that he was a genuine christian and substantiate that he believed the earth was flat.>>>>>What you will realize when you endeavor to perform this impossible task is that it was not genuine Christians who believed this myth, but it was the liberal, atheistic so-called "scholars" and etc of the day who established and believed that myth. But now that the same ilk of people look back into history and see how terribly mistakened earlier atheists were, they try to blame those early myth on true Christians. A hundred years from now if they ever come to to realize that their present day speculations are also wrong, they may blame them on present day Christians also. - 18:12:46 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

FUCK OFF!!!!!!!!!! - 18:29:04 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

-->RTL..you are about as much as Christian as much as Richard Speck was. Bet the two of you have more in common than you want to believe. - 18:31:03 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

InterNic:Results of Query of whois.internic.net Registrant: SOCIETY FOR THE PRACTICAL ESTABLISHMENT AND PERPETUATION OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS (TENCOMMANDMENTS2-DOM) 689 MILLEDGEVILLE RD EATONTON, GA 31024 Domain Name: TENCOMMANDMENTS.ORG Administrative Contact: LEE, ROBERT T (RTL12) rtlee@OCONEE.COM 706-485-5199 (FAX) 706-485-7275 Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Tech, Domain (TD220-ORG) domtech@HOM.NET 912-329-8638 Fax- 912-329-0838 - 19:08:43 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

The Unabomber:careful RTL, you might get some nasty mail - 20:09:09 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

Grant:Oh, relax. RTL is harmless. He lacks the mental horsepower to argue for his beliefs. All he can offer are schoolyard-like variants of "atheists are poopy." - 20:30:15 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

Grant:PETER-- Where are you keeping yourself these days? - 20:33:20 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

Joette:-->GRANT...we've lost him to WBS Christian Chat if you can believe it. It's like going into a pickup lounge. - 20:44:53 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

Grant:JOETTE- Maybe if I post as a nonbraindead xtian he'll come back? - 20:56:31 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSan:ROBERT T LEE. I am continually amazed at how well you manage to combine ignorance with stupidity. It was generally accepted by your christian mariners that if they sailed far enough they would fall off the face of the earth. Columbus was convinced the earth was round and managed to get the Spanish rulers to bankroll his voyage. Of course you will say they weren't christian enough or they don't go back far enough. How about John in revelations from your bible? "I saw four angels standing on the four coners of the earth." I know you will either have some apologia based on your warped thinking or you will ignore this post entirely. So, what will it be? I'm waiting. - 22:50:08 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

PapaSam:D.Great. In the worlds of politics and religion dwell the fanatics. They will lie, cheat, take on a variety of identities and do whatever else they can, including murder, to further their aims. Robert T Lee is typical.I think he is too cowardly to resort to murder, but will cheer on such deeds justifying them in the name of his holy cause. It is a waste of tie discussing the subject of 'god' with him. - 23:02:44 on 30 Aug 98 GMT

Peter:--GRANT--Oh, I'm still hanging about...... - 0:15:21 on 31 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:DGREAT- I've fainted but never had the "white light" experience, just those damn black spots before I faint. JOETTE- So Russ T Pipes is our racist? - 2:53:01 on 31 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene and I have brown eyes too:GRANT- I agree that ole RTL aka this and that is quite happy just calling we atheists , poopy. - 2:55:03 on 31 Aug 98 GMT

Marlene:Anyone watch Dateline last night? In a country in Africa there is a culture that practices the sacrifice of virgins still. People who have committed a crime or upset the gods have to give over one of their virgin daughters to the priests. The priests do marry these girls as a formality but they are basically used as slaves to work in the fields etc and sexually satisfy the priests. This practice of sacrificing virgins only started about 100 years ago. - 12:47:26 on 31 Aug 98 GMT

RUSS-T-PIPES...Macdonald's prayer..........:'Our burger what art in Heaven, Hallowed be thy Mcname, thy global kingdom come.....Thy bun will be done, in Perth as it is in Hendon. Give us this day our daily bread. and forgive us our debts as we prosecute our debtors....And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from BurgerKing:....Forthine is the Big Mac, the fries and the McLibel story.....Lasting for ever and ever. Amen .. - 12:55:17 on 31 Aug 98 GMT

RUSS-T-PIPES--Joette..:Sorry about your Grandfather, and that I touched a sore subject with you. If you feel able to, I'd like to know his history. - 13:01:55 on 31 Aug 98 GMT

RUSS-T-PIPES..........: World POPClock Projection...... Monthly World population figures:...06/01/99...5,998,517,484.....07/01/99...6,004,969,783 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source: U.S. Bureau of the Census, International Data Base.........................By my math, we top the 6 billion June 6th next year.....Rowan and Martin Laugh In some 30 years ago had a sketch wher one said "statistically, there's a woman giving birth every two and a half seconds". "I know. We have to find her and stop her". - 13:07:47 on 31 Aug 98 GMT

TO Joette......:http://www.usatoday.com/news/nds6.htm - 13:39:39 on 31 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN: Like some of the others here, I also wonder what makes someone like RTL carry on as he does. He and now the TOM pseudonym seem always about to pray or ask for the appearance of their devil or a similar such evil nonsense. While the xtians say nonxtians are pagan and heathenish the xtians still have to bring forward a superstition to somehow support their religious point of view. RTL and TOM both offer the atheist a "vain observance" as that which somehow is a "divination" for either of them and so both- now but opinions, become their liscense to apply either opinion to others as well. In the end its a matter of being with them or against them. They even refer to these opinions as "truth". The religious adherent (I can't even call them believers anymore, belief is a very human characteristic) practices observes and promotes simple minded superstition. What is their superstition? Ever see the five fundamentalist points of, I think they call them faith. - 14:58:29 on 31 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:OPEN1: Anybody been feelin'down and lonely lately? Some group, could be just a stateside group, says that participants of or on the internet got some kind of psychological or emotional problem. Participants don't talk to their families and the group referred to some other introvertive things. I don't know 'bout you others, but I wonder, maybe it is relevant to something; take a look at the posts of RTL and TOM. I don't consider either a stable human that I'd entrust with anything. If religeous adherents really are 95% o'the USA and those that appear here are really sad and pitiable, that research ought to conclude with the query, "Is no god, good?" - 15:18:33 on 31 Aug 98 GMT

Steven :CARL<<>>RTL and TOM are brainwashed individuals. They believe everything they say, because they have been wired to believe it, and never quesion it. The hate and the angst is part of that brainwashing. It is easy for them to commit any crime which they think furthers their pitifull religion, because they simply have to ask for forgivness, and in their tiny minds they are forgiven, so they can go out and spread more hate. Argggg, I will not respond to them because they are too stupid to be able to even contemplate that they may be wrong. - 17:08:25 on 31 Aug 98 GMT

Steven :ALL<<>> I am reading 'the rise and fall of the third reich' and it is quit interesting. I finished Mein Kampf last week and decided to go the whole way and read RAFOTTR. Good reads if you are into reading about someone that is a genius, and at they same time a complete and utter moron. It is kind of ironic that RTL sounds like Hitler in some of his rants. RTL of course doesn't have an original though in his head, and is quit stupid. But the rants RTL gives us could come straight from Hitlers mouth and no one would be able to tell the difference. - 17:13:30 on 31 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:STEVEN: Folks as RTL and TOm too, yeh both o'them understand very well Adolphs'rant, especially when and where concerns might turn to living space. Of all the things I've not read Mein Kampf is one. - 17:38:33 on 31 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:STeven: By the way, good to be able to respond to your posts following your hiatus. - 17:55:28 on 31 Aug 98 GMT

Steven :CARL<<>> if your read Mein Kampf you will be facinated, but at the same time disgusted. Which I found enjoyable (call me sick). However, the bible is far more disturbing. Hitler would have had to kill a few more million people to catch up with the christians. I have found that all of the spam on this page is quit annoying (the druid bullshit, and the techno spam), and certainly tired. I wish that there was a board admin that could block the spammers from posting on this page, but then we would hear screams of censorship. Oh well, I do my best to scroll through pages of absolute crap to find posts from the regulars. Also, having a wife that is about to give birth has taken up a considerable amount of free time, which I am sure will only be worse after the boy is born. YEHAW, I can not wait to have a child, and all the fun that goes with it. - 18:17:26 on 31 Aug 98 GMT

Carl:STEVEN: I'll pickup a copy before too long, I've heard its a disgusting book and the few peeks at it I've made, has me now thinking that its fascination must be about like tv wrestling. You kno'hollywood hogan, used to be hulk hogan, that act. Nowadays they do things that simply and abundantly feed the childish fantasy of the viewer. Mein Kampf must feed that same or similar fantasy of those who would want to have and control others. I bet mein kampf reads a lot like any unbiased version of the USAs'manifest destiny. I found what I've read of this act and times very disgusting. Now they say its the land of the free, hmmm? - 19:00:48 on 31 Aug 98 GMT

Chicken Little:the sky is falling! the sky is falling! Get your butts down to whatever "street" holds your stocks and mutual funds! Get them out before you lose everything!!! - 21:04:42 on 31 Aug 98 GMT